? Muriel Annie(nee Smith)AIKEN,born Mary Ann SMITH, alias E M A M STANLEY

[c more]

Hi
I think there is a family likeness between Muriel and Edith.
The flat broad area between the eyes, the nose, the lips, long neck.
Edith who looks  in her old age in the photo looks as if she would have been an attractive younger woman.
As you said earlier you would have to find Mary Ann SMITH existing at the same time as Muriel to prove that
they are 2 different people.
That fact that you say that Muriel's birthday was the date given on Mary Anne's birth certificate
is more of an indication that they are the same person.
The problem is when people say that there are secrets in the family and then don't tell
you what the secrets are you begin to suspect all kinds of things. (Be there done that.)
Cheers Leonie

[iforani]

   Thanks girls for your comments.
JM, I will order those certificates. I have used one of the transcript agents from BDM. Cost of last order (Thomas Cooper marriage) was only $10 for a full transcript. I thought that this was good.
Have just amended the post with photo of Edith to show photo of my Mum when she was younger. She is more like her father (almost dead ringer of an aunt on the Aldred side) but has the eyes I think of Edith. Edith apparently was a lovely lady. You can see the gentleness in her eyes.
I appreciate your comments too Leonie. Yes, Edith would have been attractive. Now that you say that, I can see that the nose is similar. I'll post a photo of Muriel Annie when she was about 58, if 1868 was her correct date of birth. She's put on weight but you can compare to the photo of Edith to that (will add in that other post). Edith was about 69 in that photo. I think that you may be right. There probably are some likenesses between Muriel Annie & Edith. Edith's grandchildren were stunning. One looked like Jacqui Onassis. I think that J Onassis' family (Bouviers) came from Kent so may be why, eh?
Will keep in touch with this line when I get more answers from family/certificates.
Thanks girls,
Deb

[iforani]

 
Attaching photo of Mum, Muriel Annie's granddaughter

[iforani]

  Hi again
Am still waiting for 4 certifcate transcripts...death Charles W Smith in 1910, birth Ruby JV Smith, 1889, baptism William SMITH 1850, death Louisa Dutlinger Power death 1934. Hopefully these may shed some more light on this one.
The reason I have ordered the cert of Louisa Dutlinger Power is as follows. Edward  Muriel Aiken named one of their children , Louis Dutlinger AIKEN (Born in Petersham, NSW 1902). NSW BDM 25395/1902 . There is no family connection to the interesting name. I have googled the name Dutlinger & have come up with the following references..
 :)A Louisa Dutlinger Power died in 1934 (Randwick cemetery records); she was 60 when she died.. Sydney Morning Herald notice...buried Roman Catholic Cemetery Randwick...was the wife of Mr JJ Power MLA 1901-1904. Mrs Power who was 60 years of age was noted for hercharitable work over many years. She assisted Mrs Earle Page to establish at Strathfield about 13 years ago, a branch of the CWA. She was also on various committees for raising funds for St Vincents Hospital & the Catholic Home for Babies, Waitara. She is survived by her husband & 2 married daughters.

Also in the Essendon Gazette & Kellor, Bulla & Broadwater's Reporter (TROVE) a "Louisa Dutlinger POWER, of 315 George St Sydney, married woman"was reported as owning land ..registered owner..Lot 33 etc etc at Sydenham. 16th May 1918.

A FURTHER COINCIDENCE is that Edward Imlay Aiken in 1879 lived at 316 GEORGE st Sydney, different time but this residence would be close to the residence of Louisa Dutlinger Power BORN circa 1874? Edward posted an ad for a missing red shawl ON 11TH June 1879 SYDNEY MORNING HERALD) (E Imlay Aiken Please return red shawl taken from Oddfellows Hall, Monday evening. Please leave 111 King Street).

There is  a marriage of Louisa D FRASER to John POWER in 1894. Parents were George & Elizabeth.

How can I check whether there was a property owned by Frasers in George St Sydney IN 1879 (when Edward was at number 316)

There are other references to a Frederick Dutlinger (who was admitted to an asylum in Victoria in 1864 (Portland Guardian & Normanby General Advertiser)...25.07.1864...various articles both on this date & after relating to a sum of money deposited by Frederick Dutlinger with superintendent when he enetered the asylum but not recorded, not in the audit...I won't print here...too much)...ALSO  ads posted in the Sydney Morning Herald...eg 7.05.1868 Frederick Dutlinger Brother & sister wish to hear from you. Address R.A. Oamaru, Otago, New Zealand. ...He was probably still in the asylum??? getting off track ...most likely connection with Aikens is the Louisa Dutlinger (nee Fraser?) POWER. I will post another thread on this as someone may know something about the POWERS, which will shed some light as to why the AIKENS chose to name a child with such a name. Maybe they just liked it but??

[mum mum]

Hi
Over the time that you have been researching you family has anyone got the death certificate for Emma Stanley, nee Fieldhouse who appears to have died in 1918? How many children does it list?
Do you also have her husband's death certificate?
What about William Smith and his wife, Muriel Annie's 'real' parents, what do their death certificates say?

mum mum

[majm]

Hi mum mum,

Somewhere in among these threads I recall reading the details for the dcs for William SMITH and for Eliza SMITH.  I don't recall which thread, sorry.  I am fairly sure that I have not read any information about Emma STANLEY nee FIELDHOUSE's dc, but agree that would be a significant document in the quest to establish if Muriel Annie was actually born Mary Ann SMITH to William and Eliza. 

OOps, galloping fingers here,
Adding
 http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,492262.0.html 
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,547501.0.html 
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,605993.0.html
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,606139.0.html
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,606534.0.html


Cheers,  JM

[iforani]

  I thought you were busy JM??
Thank you both (Mum mum & JM) for your suggestion of buying the death cert's of the alias parents,  Charles Cooper & Emma nee Fieldhouse. NO I don't have these & they may (or may not) reveal an extra child born to one or both parents. I DO have the birth cert of Elizabeth Mary STANLEY (think I attached this in one of the threads, I also forget which)..but in the space where you write in the children that you have already...it is indecipherable...my sister said she magnified it & it said "None". ?? (I had asked her to see if it said Rosa as this is the name of a girl born to an Emma Stanley, born in 1870 a year later than Mary Ann SMITH). The woman born as Elizabeth Mary STANLEY is most definitely NOT the woman who lived her life as Muriel Annie. I had thought it possible (previously) that Muriel Annie could have been one of the older sisters. Will check back on this family to see who belonged here (how many children they had).

 :)I do have the marriage cert of William & Eliza (nee Cooper) SMITH. I do have the death cert's of both Eliza & William. The girl born as Mary Ann SMITH is called (in Eliza's certificate, 1907) Mary A (aged 39)..informant was her brother, Charles W SMITH/ (in William's cert 1912) she is called Annie (aged 44) (informant is sister Edith SMITH). As I've mentioned before, Muriel Annie celebrated the same birthday as Mary Ann SMITH.

I added some photos in a previous post ...did you see them?

Thanks for adding those threads, MAJM. Two of those were from LAST year. I see that Dundee advised me to write a letter by post to send  to the Church (which I didn't do) a good idea.

Thanks girls. 

[majm]

Yes, I am busy with real world matters, but .... I am a female so I can multi task and allow grey cells to work on your jigsaw.  I thought about Louisa DUTLINGER, and posted some info on that thread      http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,607124.0.html

Don't forget to write that snail mail letter to the C of E Diocese at Armidale NSW.   The United Church of England and Ireland was a former name for the Anglicans.   They may be able to help with the elusive blanks on the mc for William SMITH and Eliza COOPER, likely parents of Mary Ann SMITH, who you suspect was Muriel Annie AIKEN.   

Cheers,  JM

[iforani]

  Hello again

  I posted a , photo of Muriel Annie's niece (her sister, Edith or Edie's daughter, Mabel) in the photo section. My mother just sent me this photo.  She knew it was her mother's cousin, but when I suggested that it was Edith's daughter (which I had discovered a most likely..from BDM records) she said most definitely not. However I contacted Mum's second cousin in Sydney who confirmed that yes, Mabel was Edith's daughter who died in 1918 (also in BDM...Granville), from pneumonia. Apparently this lady has never seen this photo (so will forward to her family to keep)...but said that there was a large photo of Mabel on her Nana's (Edith's) wall.  In this photo there is a rising sun badge (which rootschat members gave me heaps of info about) on Mabel's jumper. Mum's cousin said that yes, she had seen a rising sun badge in her Nana's box but never knew the significance of his, as whenever anyone asked about this Edith became evasive and sad. No wonder if it belonged to her daughter who died at age 20.

I believe that Mabel bears a striking resemblance to her mother, Edith (photo of Edith already included in this thread). She was lovely.

There are some similarities to Muriel Annie, the beautiful wide set large eyes, similar nose. Mabel is a smaller woman, as was Edith, slimmer and smaller, smaller finer bones. Muriel had more arching eyebrows and  a bigger face, wider jaws, bigger chin. Does anyone think that Edith and Muriel Annie may have shared one parent, ie that they could have been half sisters, even though the SMITHS were married?

The likeness of my mother and her mother to Edith in their  older age points to a definite family connection to the SMITHS. I am still not convinced though that my grandmother (Edna Iris) was Muriel Annie's daughter, given that she had no birth certificate (no birth registered in her name)...but this is a different story..another thread which I won't start.  In my opinion there is also a resemblance of Mabel to one of my nieces.

The attached photo has been kindly restored by a Rootschat member.

Cheers, Deb