Author Topic: ? Muriel Annie(nee Smith)AIKEN,born Mary Ann SMITH, alias E M A M STANLEY  (Read 19295 times)

Offline iforani

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Re: ? Muriel Annie(nee Smith)AIKEN,born Mary Ann SMITH, alias E M A M STANLEY
« Reply #45 on: Monday 16 July 12 04:55 BST (UK) »
Hello continuing on  ;D
I have no doubt whatsoever that the Smiths are the daughters of William & Eliza & not connected via the father's family. Edith SMTH had 3 children. one of these was Eliza Stella (Lyla) who had 14 children! Most of these people are still alive. One of these women lived in Sydney & also knew the SMITHS as all aunts (including my Muriel Annie). Edith lived until 1966. One living granddaughter of Edith's  has told me that the family 'has many secrets." One of the sisters apparently had an affair with a very well known politician..??? She knew about William & Eliza but not much about them. My mother is tight lipped about certain things & I know that she knows more than what she has told me. But bit by bit she passes on information, shares information when she is ready.
I think that's enough for anyone to digest for now.
Cheers
Deb
McKay (Kildare, Ireland), Aldred (Manchester), Smith, Cooper (Kent), Howlett, Bodill, Atkins (Northamptonshire), Smart (UK, Africa), Brown, Bryant, Dixon, Walton

Offline sparrett

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Re: ? Muriel Annie(nee Smith)AIKEN,born Mary Ann SMITH, alias E M A M STANLEY
« Reply #46 on: Monday 16 July 12 05:40 BST (UK) »
Hi Deb,
What an amazing and fascinating story.

I would like to gently remind you that living persons may not be discussed on R'chat.

Your last post mentions some names of living people.

It would be correct and courteous if you would remove them now.

The moderators may heavily edit your post if you do not promptly do so yourself

Sue

Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline majm

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Re: ? Muriel Annie(nee Smith)AIKEN,born Mary Ann SMITH, alias E M A M STANLEY
« Reply #47 on: Monday 16 July 12 05:50 BST (UK) »
Yes, please go back and edit the names out  :)  fascinating story. 



Sands 1892 Suburban
PARRAMATTA, Phillip St, South Side, Charles St intersection
SMITH, William Engineer

NSW BDM online index deaths
1907 SMITH, Eliza (parents given names recorded as Thomas & Mary) registered Parramatta # 2408
From that dc, where was she buried?  (I suspect it would be Mays Hill Cemetery, see below)

TROVE
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/86155778 Cumberland Argus 16 Jan 1907
“Jan 9th, 1907, at her residence, Arthur Street Granville, (late of Phillip Street Parramatta) , Eliza, beloved wife of William Smith ….”
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/86162083 Cumberland Argus 12 Jan 1907
“Mrs Eliza Smith, of Arthur St, Clyde …… funeral took place on Friday, moving to the Presbyterian cemetery, Western Road (I suspect this would be Mays Hill Cemetery). “

Sands 1909 Suburban
GRANVILLE
(including Clyde & Guildford) Arthur St (Duck Creek to Prospect St) East Side :  (consecutive numbering)
at no. 5, SMITH Charles
at no. 8, SMITH William P  (notice the “P” I speculate that would be P for Peter.
May I note that although Onslow St (Sydney Rd to A’Beckett St)  is listed in that directory NO householder in Onslow St is listed with surname SMITH

Sands 1910 Alpha
Charles W SMITH, Harris St PARRAMATTA
William P SMITH, 8 Arthur St GRANVILLE

NSW ER 1913 HARTLEY, polling at Katoomba
Donald AIKEN, Park St, plasterer
Edward Imlay AIKEN, Wilson St, engineer
Muriel Annie AIKEN, Wilson St, domestic duties
(I note that you have the AIKEN family in 1907 at Osborne Villa Lett St, however, Wilson and Lett Streets intersect)

There are many instances in the pre WWI decades where Mum has a large family, spread over perhaps 20 – 25 years, and where the eldest girls may be having their first babies while Mum is still adding to her own family.  Sometimes the girls are single lasses.  Sometimes (often) Mum raises the girls babies along with her own, and the girls are then able to find work locally, perhaps as live in domestics during the week, and return home occasionally for a half day visit.  But usually the baby is registered showing her natural Mother as the Mum and Gran perhaps as one who assisted the midwife.

When I was sorting out my  various NSW SMITH lines, I found it very important to obtain the NSW BDM records before trying to sort out the various bits of oral history about my SMITHs.  That way I could then place the oral history to the correct immediate families.   I think it is also important to make sure that you are ordering full NSW transcripts rather than partial ones, as quite often the very clue to unravel the SMITHs is found in the obscure information (eg relationship of informant to the subject).   Of course, you will remember that the information on a birth certificate is NOT provided by the infant, and information on a death certificate is not provided by the deceased, so the information provided on a marriage certificate comes from the two subjects themselves.   

There is still nothing illegal in using a name that is not the name on your birth certificate.  Of course, in NSW you can still be known by various names without formally changing your name ….. of course, providing you are not doing so in a criminal sense to avoid punishment.  It is simply a little more difficult today to do so, as you usually need to provide identification documents to open a bank account or enter into a commercial contact etc.

Cheers,   JM
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Offline majm

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Re: ? Muriel Annie(nee Smith)AIKEN,born Mary Ann SMITH, alias E M A M STANLEY
« Reply #48 on: Monday 16 July 12 05:59 BST (UK) »
Marjorie Ileen in 1899. Mother was Louisa SMITH aged 26, born Parramatta, NSW. No father. Baby not present. 13th September 1899. Lifing in home. 100 Annandale St Municipality of Annandale. Witness 1) ...2) Mrs Gibson 3)... Partics of Reg..James William SMITH (AAAGH!!) 10th October 1899, Annandale. MAGM what is lifing? Living or birthing? I have no idea who Mrs Gibson is. I ordered this birth cert as there was no birth registration for my grandmother which is strange. I had the theory that she may have been the illegitimate daughter of one of the SMITH sisters (hence the sisterhood bonds).

from that bc (I am assuming it is the 'real deal' cert and not an official transcription), where it has James William SMITH as the informant, what does it say about his relationship to the baby whose birth is being registered.    I am expecting father/brother/uncle/ etc )  ADDING, sorted  :)  he was the district registrar for BDMs see next post  :)

And, once you have mastered "snipping" would you please show us all a small section of the bc where the words 'lifing in home' are used.  Please do not upload the entire scanned document.


Cheers,  JM
The information in my posts is provided for academic and non-commercial research purposes. 
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Offline majm

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Re: ? Muriel Annie(nee Smith)AIKEN,born Mary Ann SMITH, alias E M A M STANLEY
« Reply #49 on: Monday 16 July 12 06:26 BST (UK) »
Sands 1900 Suburban Directory
100 Annandale St,  Mrs Louisa GIBSON, nurses’ home.
50 Trafalgar St, James W SMITH, registrar of births, deaths and marriages.


Cheers,  JM
PS I think you will find that Mrs Gibson’s nurses’ home could have also been a  “lying in home” for lasses during their accouchement
The information in my posts is provided for academic and non-commercial research purposes. 
Random Acts of Kindness Given Freely are never Worthless for they are Priceless.
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All Census Look Ups Are Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Offline iforani

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Re: ? Muriel Annie(nee Smith)AIKEN,born Mary Ann SMITH, alias E M A M STANLEY
« Reply #50 on: Monday 16 July 12 07:53 BST (UK) »
 :) :) :D :) :) :-*
Firstly thank you Sue. Uh oh!  :-[ I have made the changes. Thank you for that!
Wow MAJM. I am impressed. So much information! You are supercharged. Have managed to use the snipping tool. THANKS for that! Great tool. Has taken me this long to learn something new.
Thank you  :). The article re the death of Eliza SMITH & receiving communion at the Baptist Church is a new one that I haven't read. Ta. Adds more depth to this person.
 :)Re William Smith being an engineer, this is possible. There was however another William Smith, engineer, living of all places in Granville (Phillip St also I think) whom I thought (about 2 years ago) may have been our William, but that one died in about 1924 (deleted my records but he was a member of Lodge etc..huge article on him..different man..think he was married to an Elizabeth with different children). Will have to check where corner of Phillip & Charles streets is to see if matches with number 8 Phillip St (would verify if same man). ta.
The Charles SMITH (Harris St) one would be ours I think.
Great  :) to find another reference to William Peter, wonder why he used this name? Living in Arthur St in 1910, but back in Onslow St in 1912...as this is where he died.
Can you let me know if the snip thing worked. YOU ARE RIGHT..it does say lying...but this didn't seem to make sense to me so guess my mind dismissed it. That is very interesting information about the nurse's home & how women could stay there. This is what makes me love this research so much to learn things such as this. Thanks MAJM.  :) Certainly explains the Mrs Gibson.
 ???Am not sure who Donald Aiken is but there were quite a few Aikens living in Sydney, coincidence though that was in Katoomba. maybe he is a grandson of Edward's that my cousin missed in his research (oh I'd better delete his name too).
So it states that Edwards was an engineer. My mother will be happy with this info as she told me that once before but i hadn't found any references to him as  such. he was a dairy manager, had a dairy at one stage during first marriage also during first marriage as you would have read he had a boarding house, he was on various boards, was a life insurance agent, sold refrigeration units, etc etc, a man of many talents. He was a well educated man. His post cards are very flowery. Thanks for that info too on Wilson St, Lett St. This confused me too. I've seen both addresses on the post cards. I've also seen an ad that was posted by him for the Katoomba house for rental (while the family was living at Dunedoo); the address that he gave was at a house opposite. He travelled between Katoomba & Dunedoo & all around NSW & beyond.
 :) :) :) :) Thanks so much MAJM for all of this very interesting info, also the info re mothers taking on children as their own. This is why I was wondering about my grandmother. She looks more like Edith than her grandmother (but she looks mostly like her father's family).
Cheers
Deb
McKay (Kildare, Ireland), Aldred (Manchester), Smith, Cooper (Kent), Howlett, Bodill, Atkins (Northamptonshire), Smart (UK, Africa), Brown, Bryant, Dixon, Walton

Offline iforani

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Re: ? Muriel Annie(nee Smith)AIKEN,born Mary Ann SMITH, alias E M A M STANLEY
« Reply #51 on: Monday 16 July 12 07:55 BST (UK) »
It worked Yay!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Attaching Edith Maud SMITH aged about 69.
Attaching photo of my Mum for interest only. Taken when she was about 17. She has large eyes like Edith.
Attaching photo of my Gran (Muriel Annie's daughter) in her 80's.
Attaching photo of Muriel Annie aged 59.
McKay (Kildare, Ireland), Aldred (Manchester), Smith, Cooper (Kent), Howlett, Bodill, Atkins (Northamptonshire), Smart (UK, Africa), Brown, Bryant, Dixon, Walton

Offline majm

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Re: ? Muriel Annie(nee Smith)AIKEN,born Mary Ann SMITH, alias E M A M STANLEY
« Reply #52 on: Monday 16 July 12 08:05 BST (UK) »
Well of course the snip tool works !  ;D

Cheers,  JM

PS, persons named on the 1913 NSW electoral rolls needed to be at least 21 years of age in 1913, so none of them would be still alive.
The information in my posts is provided for academic and non-commercial research purposes. 
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Offline majm

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Re: ? Muriel Annie(nee Smith)AIKEN,born Mary Ann SMITH, alias E M A M STANLEY
« Reply #53 on: Monday 16 July 12 08:50 BST (UK) »
Hi there,

Instead of spending big pennies on ‘real deal’ certificates, there’s the other option that NSW BDM  mentions on their own website.  And of course, that other option is also mentioned here at RChat.  The Official Transcriptions are cheaper and can be sent as email attachments. 
http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/familyHistory/howToTraceYouFamTree.htm#TranscriptionAgent
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,300394.0.html

If this were my SMITH family,  I would give serious thoughts to obtaining transcript copies of two NSW BDMs to sort out the William P v William Charles v William chaps:  (Both these are birth registrations, both registered Parramatta)
1870 Charles William SMITH, son of William Charles and Eliza  #15123 
1889 Ruby J V SMITH, dau of William P and Eliza  #18678  (Perhaps this one first, depending on your budget of course, but this should give you age and gender of older living siblings and clues for any that had not survived.  Also, hopefully it will explain the "P" within the details for the informant registering the birth BUT most importantly, the place of birth, and the occupation of the parents and details of when and where married should help confirm or eliminate this lass as being your Ruby. 

Cheers,  JM
The information in my posts is provided for academic and non-commercial research purposes. 
Random Acts of Kindness Given Freely are never Worthless for they are Priceless.
Qui scit et non docet.    Qui docet et non vivit.    Qui nescit et non interrogat.   
All Census Look Ups Are Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
I do not have a face book or a twitter account.