? Muriel Annie(nee Smith)AIKEN,born Mary Ann SMITH, alias E M A M STANLEY

[iforani]

 
Thanks so much for all your help MAJM. I don't want to drive you mad. Had written my post when you were writing. Hope I cleared up any confusion re the Dudleys. Sorry to waste your time which I know is precious. My father's name is also DUDLEY,  . I can hear you groan!!! Yes please have a break.

There in your post is yet another mistake made by the NEWSPAPER reporting Edward as Edward Finlay Aiken and the other as EJ Aiken. This was a typo as was the one in the Birth entry. Remember. There are several articles in Trove about the drowning. The whole sad story. Edward had just got back from Katoomba (where they had another house, actually 2 I think, one a home & one a boarding house) when this happened. Muriel Annie ran the hotel (which was actually owned by William Wish Aiken, Edward's son from first marriage).
I LOVE your banner saying found connection to smith....there are quite a few connections to the smiths in trove...death of muriel annie etc. I think that you are still confused by my original request. I know that Muriel Annie claimed to be a SMITH & called the smith girls her sisters. There is no doubt that she associated with the Smiths & that they claimed her as their sister. I guess you are saying that this is proof that it's the same couple, yet I knew this (from anecdotal evidence) also same writing on the postcard & marriage register. My query is that I still doubt she is a smith, for the reason I've given previously. Hope that you are still not confused. Sorry about this.  I will copy a photo of Edith (the lady you found living at Onslow St Granville)...later.
Cheers Deb

[majm]

The article is confirming that Miss SMITH was the AUNT of the two boys.    The article does NOT say that Miss Smith was their aunt via their MUM or via their DAD, but it seems likely from what you have posted on your several threads that the Miss SMITH was their aunt via their Mum.

Do you have earlier than 1916 evidence that Mr  AIKEN's two lads were acknowledged as nephews of Miss SMITH of Onslow St Granville? 

Have you considered that they may be nephews of that Miss SMITH via their father? Perhaps he had a half-sister with the surname SMITH. 
   
Cheers,  JM

[iforani]

No I don't have any evidence like this. There are Smiths on Edward's side. One of his half sisters, Agnes Eliza Zela Imlay (alias many other names, Zelia Eliza Imlay/Atkins) married a Francis Lewis SMITH, but these Smiths aren't connected. I am sure that there are postcards that I have that mention Edie (the Edith SMITH) so will check these.
With your attention to detail you've convinced me that I must get the death cert for Muriel Annie. Will do so tonight. I just tried to post some copies of photocopied photos sent to me by Edith Maud Smith's g grandaughter...but file again too big. Will get to this after dinner.
Cheers Deb

[majm]

No I don't have any evidence like this. There are Smiths on Edward's side. One of his half sisters, Agnes Eliza Zela Imlay (alias many other names, Zelia Eliza Imlay/Atkins) married a Francis Lewis SMITH, but these Smiths aren't connected. I am sure that there are postcards that I have that mention Edie (the Edith SMITH) so will check these.
With your attention to detail you've convinced me that I must get the death cert for Muriel Annie. Will do so tonight. I just tried to post some copies of photocopied photos sent to me by Edith Maud Smith's g grandaughter...but file again too big. Will get to this after dinner.
Cheers Deb

It is best, when researching SMITH in NSW to spend the pennies on the official transcripts and get to know the subjects and the informants and the issues of the marriages and where they all lived at various times, and fit them into a time line. 

Here's some more SMITH sightings.

NSW ER 1903 PARRAMATTA, polling at Parramatta.   There are, of course, many with the surname SMITH just at that polling place.  The ones that follow are of Harris St., which to my way of thinking would be less than a mile to Onslow St via Shanks Ponies.  The rolls do not indicate any marital status, and NO house numbers, so they are not in household order.  They are in alphabetical order by given names.
SMITH of Harris St
Alexander William Sampson, traveller
Charles William, labourer
Eliza, dd  (there are 6 females named Eliza Smith and 6 named Elizabeth Smith just for that polling place, just this one at Harris St
Ellen Mary F, dd
Louise Amelia, dd
Mary Ann, pensioner
Sidney, junior, baker
William, engine-driver (it does NOT say Railway engine driver, it could for example be a stationary engine that he operated, or a steam driven engine operating a digger, dozer, road construction equipment etc)

Following up on Charles William SMITH.  (Remember you mentioned that name perhaps as the informant on William Peter SMITH’s dc, but I have not read back to check which thread that info appears on) There were two chaps by that name, the one above at Harris St, and:

Charles William at Galloway St, a baker.  So I have looked at Galloway St enrollments for SMITH as well :
Edward Henry, fitter
Elizabeth, dd
Henry Ernest, carter
Kate, dd
Maria, dd
Peter, labourer
Reuben, gardener

Also, re Sidney, junior, the baker of Harris St.  There’s a Sidney SMITH, signalman of Wigram St and a Sophie L of Wigram St and many others of Wigram St.

Fingers crossed you can sort out the various SMITH sightings in 1903 at Harris St, Galloway St and the couple I tossed in for Wigram St.   I am sure that you would not be connected to the Eliza SMITH of Hunter St, as her occupation was listed as ‘prisoner’.   May I also note that historically, it was not yet compulsory to enrol, but that the NSW 1903 roll included females aged 21 and over.   

Cheers,  JM

[mum mum]

Hi
I have been trying to follow this over the last couple of days.
 My suggestion with the Smith's would be to follow the marriages and children of the family, try to completely 'map' their families to see where they all were. Only then, I think you will be able to definitely say which 'Smith' families are yours.
Possibly by following these families you may turn up evidence of a connection with yours.

mum mum

[iforani]

 
Thanks Mum mum, have replied to you offline. This thread is confusing. I have done the Smith family tree & I know where Muriel Annie fits into this if she is who she says she was (my query suggested that she may not have been a SMITH at all, but someone who was accepted into the family & who took on the identity of Mary Ann SMITH.0). She used an alias when she married & she may have used another alias for the rest of her life, the Smith alias. Maybe I will never know & will have to accept that she was Mary Ann SMITH. I will keep looking into it & will add to this thread when i have more info that is definite. You guys have taught me a lot about researching & i appreciate all the tips.

  :)MAJM, the William SMITH engine driver is most likely Muriel's "fathër" William Smith who was an engine driver when he died.  Ellen Mary SMITH is the only other one in your list that I can identify.

For the record, the Smith family is as follows..Mary A SMITH 1868- (Muriel Annie- 1942).
                                                Charles William 1870-1910
                                                Elsie Mary 1873-1875
                                                Thomas H (probably Harvey, after uncle)  1875-1876
                                                Albert Edward 1876-1878
                                                Louisa (Louie) 1871-1931
                                                Edith Maud (Edie) 1878-
                                                Matilda Jane 1880-1881
                                                Una May 1884-1950
                                                Ellen Mary (Nellie) 1882- 1958     
                                                Ruby JV  1889- ?   
Mary A, Charles, Louisa, Edith, Una, Ellen, Ruby are mentioned on Eliza's death cert as well as 2 females 2 male children. Mary A (Annie), Louisa, Edith, Una, Ellen, Ruby are mentioned on William's plus 3 males , 2 females.  Charles had died in 1910. I recall reading somewhere that a William was born in 1867, so this is confusing. Neither Louie nor Edie married though they both had issue (I believe 3 children each). I don't know if Charles married. Una married Robert Paterson (she had a child before she married but no issue with Robert Paterson). Nellie married John Alexander Storey. They had children. I won't list all the children's names as will only confuse more.

MAJM I found a post card addressed to Miss M Aiken (Mollie daughter of Muriel Victoria) from Edie, simply stating Wishing you many Happy Birthdays From Edie. (dated 23rd June 07) This does interest me as it is odd that if Edie was a sister of Muriel Annie, then one would expect Edie to call herself AUNT EDIE as she would be  a great aunt. Yes?

[iforani]

  Blimey I'm confusing you all again! I just transcribed a postcard & said that was sent to  Muriel Victoria's daughter but WRONG WRONG, am trying to correct before you pick up my error ( ). The post card dated 07 was of course sent to Muriel Victoria..born 1895 (so in 1907) would be 12. Confused myself as I know that Muriel Victoria's daughter was also born in June). This makes it even stranger as Edie is supposedly the aunt yet she calls herself Edie, not Aunt Edie.
Cheers
Deb

[majm]

Hi

You are confusing me again.

Charles William SMITH on the 1903 roll  ... why are you eliminating him please ... You have him alive until 1910 

Why are you eliminating Louisa as a Miss Smith  at Onslow St on 1913 roll .... and was she Without a middle name so you are eliminating Louisa from 1903 ...

and was Eliza nee Cooper not on the roll in 1903 either ?

On one of your threads you said these SMITHS lived Parramatta and then Granville ....

So you are confusing me

Cheers JM

Re the postcard for 1907 ... what was the address on the card for that Miss M AIKEN please .... as this may held sort out the relationship to Edie     If Miss M was an adult it could be a sister or cousin to Edward I Aiken .... or his daughter from his first marriage

 
Thanks Mum mum, have replied to you offline. This thread is confusing. I have done the Smith family tree & I know where Muriel Annie fits into this if she is who she says she was (my query suggested that she may not have been a SMITH at all, but someone who was accepted into the family & who took on the identity of Mary Ann SMITH.0). She used an alias when she married & she may have used another alias for the rest of her life, the Smith alias. Maybe I will never know & will have to accept that she was Mary Ann SMITH. I will keep looking into it & will add to this thread when i have more info that is definite. You guys have taught me a lot about researching & i appreciate all the tips.

  :)MAJM, the William SMITH engine driver is most likely Muriel's "fathër" William Smith who was an engine driver when he died.  Ellen Mary SMITH is the only other one in your list that I can identify.

For the record, the Smith family is as follows..Mary A SMITH 1868- (Muriel Annie- 1942).
                                                Charles William 1870-1910
                                                Elsie Mary 1873-1875
                                                Thomas H (probably Harvey, after uncle)  1875-1876
                                                Albert Edward 1876-1878
                                                Louisa (Louie) 1871-1931
                                                Edith Maud (Edie) 1878-
                                                Matilda Jane 1880-1881
                                                Una May 1884-1950
                                                Ellen Mary (Nellie) 1882- 1958     
                                                Ruby JV  1889- ?   
Mary A, Charles, Louisa, Edith, Una, Ellen, Ruby are mentioned on Eliza's death cert as well as 2 females 2 male children. Mary A (Annie), Louisa, Edith, Una, Ellen, Ruby are mentioned on William's plus 3 males , 2 females.  Charles had died in 1910. I recall reading somewhere that a William was born in 1867, so this is confusing. Neither Louie nor Edie married though they both had issue (I believe 3 children each). I don't know if Charles married. Una married Robert Paterson (she had a child before she married but no issue with Robert Paterson). Nellie married John Alexander Storey. They had children. I won't list all the children's names as will only confuse more.

MAJM I found a post card addressed to Miss M Aiken (Mollie daughter of Muriel Victoria) from Edie, simply stating Wishing you many Happy Birthdays From Edie. (dated 23rd June 07) This does interest me as it is odd that if Edie was a sister of Muriel Annie, then one would expect Edie to call herself AUNT EDIE as she would be  a great aunt. Yes?

[iforani]

Hello MAJM
 :)Thank you and sorry, yes I did miss these important points. I am  a Gemini whose mind rushes ahead, who tends to speed read & extract the main points rather than sift through for the facts. My sister says that I "filter' information. I think she is right.

Thank you for the info on the engine driver. A valid point. I tend to put a story together which may or may not be the correct one..(engine driver/train driver due to his chronic lung problems & pneumonia...he may have been a heavy smoker!!!). Thank you.  

Yes, this could be our Louisa, Louise Amelia; even though I've never heard of a middle name for her, most likely she did have one as the other sisters all had middle names.  Yes, this is most likely Eliza & William (the parents). Yes, this is most likely the same Charles, living in Harris St, Parramatta, as labourer. Am not sure that the same Charles being a baker but you never know. How interesting. This would also i would think point to some connection with young Sidney who was also a baker. I see where you are coming from. This could even be his son. And one of the other women could be his wife...Kate, Maria?? These aren't names of the Smith sisters' children. I don't have any information on the marital status of William Charles, so don't know anything at all about him, except that he had died before the father. The pensioner Mary ann is an interesting one.   Wonder where she fits in. This is sort of what I wanted to look for...ie if there is any other Mary ann in this Smith family, still living at the same time that Muriel Annie was living. As I mentioned to another rootschatmember offline, I sort of thought that it was possible that my Muriel Annie could have had 2 aliases in her life, the first was the Stanley woman, the second was the Mary Ann Smith. Clearly if the second was the case, the Smith women obviously went along with it. eg I thought it possible that my Muriel Annie could have been married (even to Charles William) & wanted out of the marriage
when she fell in love with Edward. Edward & Muriel Annie's marriage was one full of love. Yesterday my mother read me one of Muriel's letters to him. Very gushy. Will send as 2 posts...as I wrote too much..
I wonder then who Alexander William Sampson was?
OK...now the address on the postcard is Osborne Villa, Lett St, Katoomba, which was the home of Edward & Muriel Annie Aiken; the addressee  wasMiss M Aiken (Muriel Victoria) who would have been 12. Edie (name underlined) gives no address. But the postcard is stamped Parramatta, so she was living in Parramatta. I''ve also worked out where some of the SMITH sisters were living, based on where they gave birth to their children. I have for example a birth cert of a Marjorie Ileen in 1899. Mother was Louisa SMITH aged 26, born Parramatta, NSW. No father. Baby not present. 13th September 1899. Lifing in home. 100 Annandale St Municipality of Annandale. Witness 1) ...2) Mrs Gibson 3)... Partics of Reg..James William SMITH (AAAGH!!) 10th October 1899, Annandale. MAGM what is lifing? Living or birthing? I have no idea who Mrs Gibson is. I ordered this birth cert as there was no birth registration for my grandmother which is strange. I had the theory that she may have been the illegitimate daughter of one of the SMITH sisters (hence the sisterhood bonds). My Gran looks nothing like her sister Muriel Victoria. I have a photo of her. Muriel V.does look something like her parents. Supposedly the child Marjorie Ileen died. It is my theory that maybe the baby was taken in by Muriel & Edward. It would have been difficult for a single woman in those days & the SMITHS were a poor family to start with. (In 1895 for example Eliza Cooper had taken in HER sister Louisa McCann & children but she could only keep them for 2 weeks after which time they had to go to the Sydney Benevolent Asylum, then some other asylum where Susannah ended up dying in the same year). So things would have been tough. Maybe baby Marjorie did die? Who knows. The interesting thing is that Louisa was living just down the street from Edward & Muriel Annie Aiken. How convenient. This letter that I mentioned before mentions baby Edna (my grandmother) as doing well. Edna was born in Dec 1899 supposedly (no birth certificate for her) & Muriel Annie made the comment that (in january) she was coming along nicely...and that she (Muriel Annie) had never felt better in her llife, I  thought an unusual comment for a woman who has 3 children at home, has just given birth a month earlier & has a husband living away fom home. I do think it strange that, given just how methodical Edwrad & M. Annie were in registering the births of their other children it is odd that my grandmother (Edna Iris)'s birth was never registered. This family does have secrets. My mother procured a birth extract for her mum when she took her to nz some years ago but when i asked her about this she couldnt remember the details.....will continue in next post...have exceeded my limit..

Cheers
Deb