Bridget Cullen b.1883 lived in Barnacullia

[taramcdsmall]

Just noted that you haven't mentioned that Matthew and Bridget had a son called Matthew born in 1914.

Tara

[aghadowey]

Have read through this thread from the start and a few things to mention although after all this time these things may not be new.

Reply #6- I don't think first cousins can marry under Irish and Catholic Church law, so am assuming I had found the wrong one?
There is no legal restriction on the marriage of first cousins. https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/birth-family-relationships/getting-married/legal-requirements-for-marriage/
The religious angle covered here https://www.jstor.org/stable/45101965 (preview)

Bridget? age 11 https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Dublin/Dundrum/Dundrum/1316053/
Age may not be accurate since the form would have been filled out by her employer.

Death of Bridget on 18 March-
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/deaths_returns/deaths_1914/05312/4478118.pdf
Birth of son Matthew on 1 March-
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/birth_returns/births_1914/01423/1584247.pdf
Sadly baby Matthew died aged 3 months in Loughinstown Workhouse- 'Want of Mother's milk' and 'convulsions given as cause of death-
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/deaths_returns/deaths_1914/05296/4472740.pdf

Reply #61- It also gives Bridget's mother's name as Bridget. So ... This rules out the 1881 birth in Dublin where a Francis Cullen was married to Elizabeth Roe, I believe?
I have seen instances where Elizabeth and Bridget used for same person. This seems to suggest it could be so-
https://www.whatsinaname.net/female-names/Bridget.html

[taramcdsmall]

Hi Aghadowey

We've pretty much established that:

Bridget and Matthew weren't first cousins . . .

The age on the 1901 census states 17 NOT 11 😂

OP states that there were some errors on Bridget and Matthew's cert so it's possible that Bridget's mother's name was another one of these errors.

I don't know if you've seen all of my posts but I have tied Bridget Cullen born 1881 to the 1901/1911 Cullen family . . .

Hope this clears things up for you . . .

Tara

[nannyj]

Just noted that you haven't mentioned that Matthew and Bridget had a son called Matthew born in 1914.

Tara

Oh yes. Sorry. He would've been my Nan's little brother. Bridget died of peritonitis in March 1914, following childbirth. He died too. The surviving children Sarah, Elizabeth (my nan) and Annie. Mary died in 1913 aged three. Nan remembers putting pennies on her eyes. Then the family was split up. The girls were so little 😪 Their dad disappeared to Scotland as the story goes. Sarah to an aunt, Nan to either one of the grandmothers or an aunt. I'm not sure which, but the census from 26 might help. Annie to an orphanage.

[nannyj]

It would appear that Francis & Elizabeth had 5 sons and 5 daughters and going by the 1911 census, Bridget was the only daughter to survive.

There are some civil records for the family but most are church / baptism records.

Tara

I'll look those deaths up. Thanks.

[nannyj]

Have read through this thread from the start and a few things to mention although after all this time these things may not be new.

Reply #6- I don't think first cousins can marry under Irish and Catholic Church law, so am assuming I had found the wrong one?
There is no legal restriction on the marriage of first cousins. https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/birth-family-relationships/getting-married/legal-requirements-for-marriage/
The religious angle covered here https://www.jstor.org/stable/45101965 (preview)




Bridget? age 11 https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Dublin/Dundrum/Dundrum/1316053/
Age may not be accurate since the form would have been filled out by her employer.

Death of Bridget on 18 March-
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/deaths_returns/deaths_1914/05312/4478118.pdf
Birth of son Matthew on 1 March-
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/birth_returns/births_1914/01423/1584247.pdf
Sadly baby Matthew died aged 3 months in Loughinstown Workhouse- 'Want of Mother's milk' and 'convulsions given as cause of death-
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/deaths_returns/deaths_1914/05296/4472740.pdf

Reply #61- It also gives Bridget's mother's name as Bridget. So ... This rules out the 1881 birth in Dublin where a Francis Cullen was married to Elizabeth Roe, I believe?
I have seen instances where Elizabeth and Bridget used for same person. This seems to suggest it could be so-
https://www.whatsinaname.net/female-names/Bridget.html

Oh bless. I assumed Matthew died at home. That's even more sad 😪
Bridget died at home.

[nannyj]

Have read through this thread from the start and a few things to mention although after all this time these things may not be new.

Reply #6- I don't think first cousins can marry under Irish and Catholic Church law, so am assuming I had found the wrong one?
There is no legal restriction on the marriage of first cousins. https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/birth-family-relationships/getting-married/legal-requirements-for-marriage/
The religious angle covered here https://www.jstor.org/stable/45101965 (preview)

Bridget? age 11 https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Dublin/Dundrum/Dundrum/1316053/
Age may not be accurate since the form would have been filled out by her employer.

Death of Bridget on 18 March-
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/deaths_returns/deaths_1914/05312/4478118.pdf
Birth of son Matthew on 1 March-
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/birth_returns/births_1914/01423/1584247.pdf
Sadly baby Matthew died aged 3 months in Loughinstown Workhouse- 'Want of Mother's milk' and 'convulsions given as cause of death-
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/deaths_returns/deaths_1914/05296/4472740.pdf

Reply #61- It also gives Bridget's mother's name as Bridget. So ... This rules out the 1881 birth in Dublin where a Francis Cullen was married to Elizabeth Roe, I believe?
I have seen instances where Elizabeth and Bridget used for same person. This seems to suggest it could be so-
https://www.whatsinaname.net/female-names/Bridget.html

Wow. Didn't know about Bridget/ Elizabeth/ Betsy.

[aghadowey]

I didn't see a mention that Matthew and Bridget were not first cousins in the thread but early on was this-

Yes that's the Mathew Cullen. I have got back to his parents by looking at the Irish Genealogy site (complete with Latin names!) and found several of his relatives. I did find a record for a baptism of a Brdget Cullen, but the parents seem to be Mathew's uncle and his wife, Elisabeth Roe (who lived in Dublin City for a while but also in Barnacullia) ... I don't think first cousins can marry under Irish and Catholic Church law, so am assuming I had found the wrong one?

Which is why I posted that first cousins can marry.

I know that you (Tara) had found Bridget in the 1901 census (reply #9) but her age being 17 not 11 wasn't mentioned in that post.

Nannyj- no need to quote all of previous reply as it makes you post very long   

Before our current health system the Workhouse would have been the place for hospital care so that's likely why wee Matthew ended up there sometime after his mother died.
https://www.workhouses.org.uk/Rathdown/ (you can see that the hospital building is show near the bottom of the map)

[taramcdsmall]

I haven't spotted any good matches to the deaths of Bridget's sisters but given that they were most likely in Dublin City there are a LOT to go through and I may have just missed them . . .

I don't think the family were great at registering records as a lot of the births don't seem to be registered either but I have come across this issue before . . .

I am looking at two possible siblings for Francis Cullen . . .

Catherine Cullen who married a Joseph Doyle in 1865 . . .

Also a Mary Cullen who married a Matthew Doyle in 1869 . . .

Both Mary and Catherine list their address as Stepaside (same as Francis), list their father as Patrick (same as Francis) and list their father's occupation as Quarryman (same as Francis) . . .

I'm laughing here as Mary Cullen Doyle had a granddaughter who married my Great Grandfather's brother . . .

If I'm correct I can put you in touch with this lady's relative but we need to be sure first . . . I will double check with him to see how much of his Cullen tree he has done and will let you know . . .

Tara