William Gosen

[Bo]

Hi I'm hoping someone can help me find a marriage for William Gosen and Amelia Holman - possibly Canada and region of 1870, give or take a few years.

There is a WG in 1881 Welsh census plus Amelia Gosen but they lived in different addresses.  His birth is given as Canada and I'm wondering if they met and married there before settling in Wales.  Any help much appreciated 

Bo

[t mo]

hi bo
the census you looked at as it stands yes different counties for both of them but william is a lodger in his record and the one for amelia has a list of other people with it which is a mistranscription only if you look at the original recore after each set of family names there are 2 lines denoting where one family ends and the next starts hence the mix up . now as a piece of guess work maybe william is living else where from his family because of work or he,s had to go in search of work , always remember a census is taken and it,s where a person is on the night and time the census is taken is where they are registered not where  they normally would be living with there family .i presume you,ve tried the 1871 & 1891 cen and can,t find them [ at least i can,t ]  so i,m wondering if they have emmigrated back to canada , having said that i,ve had a cursory look in collections canada but can,see them but others with far more expertise probably will .
regards
trevor

[Bo]

thank you for your response Trevor 

I too think they may have been living apart in 1881 for the reasons you state - work

I can't find them in 1871 but Amelia Gosen can be found and living with a Richard Saunders/Sanders in Wales.  I think she may be a widow because a marriage certificate for one of her kids state the father (William Gosen) as deceased and occupation as Soldier.

I can't find a death certificate for William Gosen either - he's very elusive    I wondered, as a soldier, could he have died elsewhere but not sure how to progress with that one !

Anyway, thank you again for taking the time to search for me 

[t mo]

out of curiosity and to get it straight in my head we have the gosens living apart in 1881 and nothing for them in 1871 is that right , so when you say you,ve found amelia living with an r saunders when is that and also what date is the marriage cert .

i,ve just looked in service/pension records for the army and he,s not in those under gosen so did a variants search and still nothing for anyone born in canada , but have found a death in gro army death indices 1851 - 1955 for a william gosden  egypt 1884 page 915  but without buying the cert who knows if it,s correct .

in answer to your question if he could have died overseas then yes quite easily and although we have the above he could easily have been either mistranscribed by his name or even lost in the mists of time , it,s always possible he went back to canada and just disappeared back then it was easy enough and the family assumed he was dead a marriage cert is not proof of death or who a father is or was
my own grandad put in fathers name a fictitious name on his marriage cert as i know full well he didn,t know his fathers name  as he was born out of wedlock it was just done for proprieties sake .
sorry to run on .
regards
trevor

[Bo]

thanks again Trevor 

Amelia and her children are found in the 1891 census with Richard Saunders.  They do eventually marry but not until c 1898.

The William Gosden death fits into the time-scale but I wouldn't know how to verify it is the same person    It just seems strange that Amelia's husband has 'disappeared' without a local death record which implies he died elsewhere or, indeed, he did a moonlight flit back to Canada without his family 

[t mo]

hi bo
there is something you could try and that is to post on the canada board a general look up for william  i don,t think we can get much more mileage out of this post now , so you have nothing to lose
regards
trevor

[valeriec]

Please do not start another thread on this person, keeping all info on the one thread is much better for any searchers who are looking. If they don't find anything, it won't matter how many threads you start.
A couple of questions?
Was Amelia born in Canada and were any children born in Canada. Can you give us the approx dates of birth for William, Amelia and the children.
On the marriage certificate to Richard Saunders, does it give Amelia's parents or her place of birth. The answers to these questions could help in trying to determine what part of Canada they may have been living in. Al bmd's are by province and what is available varies from province to province. There isn't a central registry as in other countries.

If he was a soldier, have you checked the military records at find my past.
Goshen/Gosen is not a comon name in the census records  of Canada.

I will keep looking.

[t mo]

hi valeriec
normally i,m with you but as we weren,t getting any help i thought it worthwhile doing a different approach to this .
as to FindMyPast army records i did that earlier and nothing in there or any other armed forces records see my earlier post as it is i tried to find anything on him in collections canada but didn,t come up with anything .
regards
trevor
ps i only ever suggest another thread as a last resort .

[valeriec]

I went to familysearch.org to find the names of the children as they weren't listed in the post.

William Francis baptism 1878
Amelia Caroline, baptism 16 June 1878
Agnes, baptism 12 Oct 1879
Bedwelty Monmouth England

Can you confirm these are the children of William and Amelia. This will at least place the family for 1878 and 1879.

Also
1881 Census
William Gosen, age 36
b. 1845 Canada, lodger, married, general labourer
Address - Graig Berthllwyd Cottage
Llanfabon, Glamorganshire, Wales
Head of househould is Edwin Boulton
I would suggest that this is the William Gosen married to Amelia and now we have his year of birth 1845.

All of the above can be very helpful in trying to find where he was born and married.

I have gone back through most of the census info availalbe through automated genealogy and library and archives Canada. My best guess and I am say GUESS would be to concentrate on Ontario, probably the Frontenac and Waterloo areas. I would search for Gosen/Gossen and alternative spellings for anyone with the names William, Francis, Agnes, Caroline as many people used a naming pattern and that may be the only way to narrow down a search.

I would also find the source for the info on family search and contact to see if you can find the original baptism registrations as that could give more information.

I would get the marriage registration details (not the certificate) for Amelia and Richard Saunders. The registration will more than likely have more details than the marriage certificate which usually only has the date and place. Registration details can give place of birth, parents, etc.

There is a death on Family Search for a William Gosen 1910 age 65 (age out by 10 years) Pittsburgh, Frontenac, Ontario

Hope this helps some.