Wiliam Black and his father Henry Black, Glasgow, Essex and Dorset

[maisiemo]

Hello Hemmum

I am so pleased to read your post.  Lily Trigg was my husband’s grandmother, her daughter Joan is my husband’s mother.  From what you said about the military side of the family I think perhaps I have got my William Black’s confused.

The family ‘story’ always spoke of a strong military background but I could not find much evidence of that.  The family also believed that William’s first wife died in childbirth but knew no details.

This is what I have on ‘my’ William Black.

He was born in Glasgow, question mark over the date.

31 Dec 1890 (aged 22) he married Mary Carson Thomson (aged 18) in Glasgow.  The certificate shows his father as Henry Black, stationer’s assistant (deceased) and mother Isabella Black m.s. Greer.

I believe they had three children - Henry 23/8/1891;  Mary 17/5/1893; and Isabella 14/5/1896 but I have not been able to trace them on any census records etc.

4 May 1907 Mary died in childbirth.  I cannot find any ongoing record of the child so it may not have lived.

3 July 1920 William married Lilian Trigg  (mostly referred to as Lily).  William is recorded as 41 years and widower, and his father Henry Black, stationer (deceased); Lily as 30 years, spinster.  At that time they lived at 12 Smith Street, Shoeburyness.  S. Trigg and A Trigg were witnesses at the marriage.  William and Lily went on to have 8 children, the 7th being Joan Mary, Tony’s mother.

William’s occupation at the first marriage was ‘saw miller’ and at the second 'wood machinist' - no mention of military involvement.  Also on the marriage certificates there is a difference of 10 years in calculating his year of birth, 1869 and 1879.

I wonder now whether I have two different Williams here, although the same father details in both certificates would discount that. 

Can I ask what relation Lily is to you?

Anne

[Hemmum]

Hi Anne

Lily was my grandfathers sister. I will have a hunt around for you to see if I can help.
From William Black's first marriage certificate do you have his residence? Who were the witnesses?

I do feel that military records may help particularly as you cannot find the children on the census. (maybe they were abroad) What records do you have for the births for;
Henry 23/8/1891; Mary 17/5/1893; and Isabella 14/5/1896

You mention; 'The family ‘story’ always spoke of a strong military background but I could not find much evidence of that'
Lily's brother Samuel (registered as Robert Samuel) attested for the army in 1903 and served until 1916 but on the 1901 and 1911 census he gives his occupation as either a general labourer or a Labourer at Government works and makes no mention of being a serving soldier! The same is true with her brother Gideon who was a also a carpenter, but makes no mention of being a soldier on the census.

[Hemmum]

Hi again Anne,
Not sure if this helps but you mentioned William's three children. Perhaps this is the family on 1901 census. William Black born 1865 Glasgow (Ship Yard Labourer) wife Mary 1873 Glasgow, s Henry 1892, d Mary 1892, d Isabella 1897, all living 44 Marlborough Street Glasgow, Camlachie

I do not know my way around the Scottish records very well. Is there a 1911 census? Any idea when his first wife Mary Black died?

[Hemmum]

Hi Anne
Can you check on the witness of the 1920 marriage certificate? I though Lily's sister Ann married in 1909 and had died by 1910 (this balances with the 1911 census which gives her parents children) so could not have been the A Trigg who witnessed the wedding. There was the wife of Gideon, Agnes Alice Trigg?

[maisiemo]

Hello again and thank you for your input.

William Black’s first marriage -
William’s address 5 Norfolk Street, Glasgow
Mary’s address 420 Rutherglen Road, Glasgow
Mary Black died 4 May 1907 in Glasgow (hospital)

I have just been looking at the 1901 census, and yes I am sure that is the first little family.  On Find My Past, the 1911 census does not appear to include Scotland.  I looked at 1891 but cannot find any of them.

Just read your latest post.  The witnesses only have their first initial, so no confirmation of first name.  I haven’t yet searched for the spouses of Lily’s siblings.

[Hemmum]

How about this?
1891 census William Black born 1870 Glasgow (Saw miller) wife Mary 1873 Glasgow living 45 Pollock St Glasgow, Govan.

[maisiemo]

Yes, I have found that now 

I have found the Scottish records much more difficult to find.  I had drawn so many blanks originally on finding William's first wife, then I attended a lecture at Register House in Edinburgh, the home of the Scottish files.  They gave us access to their Scotland's People computer system with an expert on hand to help us.  He found Mary for me, and her cause of death which confirmed that she died in childbirth.