Wiliam Black and his father Henry Black, Glasgow, Essex and Dorset

[maisiemo]

Elaine - Wonderful information, thank you.  You say "IF that is the right family".  To my inexperienced eye, it certainly looks like it.  The only thing that bothers me is William Black's age/DOB.  I have a copy of his marriage certificate from GRO, which states his age as 41years (in 1920) which would make his DOB around 1879, whereas Family Search show 1869.  Should I be concerned about that? 

Spidermonkey - Wow - that sounds really interesting.  I do know that William Black was very military minded and sent at least three of his sons (my husband’s uncles) to "Army school". 

I am amazed at what you good people can find! 

Anne

[elaine447]

Anne
the reason I said if was the same reason (age difference)
as there are more couples called Henry Black and Isabella,I have been looking through some of the family trees on Ancestry to see if any of them fit in,
The Henry Black and spouse Isabella Wilson
 children are Janet and John,
Henry Black and spouse Isabella Cumming
 children are James, Henry, Isabella, Annie and John,
I can find most of these on family search
I cant see a William born to these two families but as the births only go up to 1875 it is possible
they could have,
I wonder if William fibbed about his age 
will keep looking,

[pinefamily]

If the William Black b.1870 is "yours", then possibly he lied about his age to bring it closer to his bride's.
You probably need to locate William Black before his marriage in 1920, either his first marriage, or better still his military involvement.

[elaine447]

I think we need to find out about the military record that Spidermonkey found and
which Henry Black it belongs to,
as both of these Henry's have a sister called Isabella it could be either of them,
a couple of questions,
Anne have you found a marriage for Isabella,
Spidermonkey,what surname did Bella have on the military record,
if Isabella had married would the military record show her married name of maiden name
Elaine

[maisiemo]

Elaine
SpiderMonkey seemed to be talking about Henry Jnr, William's brother.
I haven't yet found a marriage for Isabella.  She is there with the family in the 1881 census.  By 1891 she is a Boarder with another family, also named Black.  So far, I cannot find her after that.
There is also a child of Henry and Isabella called Elizabeth, born 6 July 1872 (shown in Family Search) but I cannot find her on the census records.
This is very addictive, isn't it?
Anne

[Spidermonkey]

Unfortunately, Bella is given a surname of Henry's army record.  In the next of kin section it just says sister - Bella and then gives her address!

[maisiemo]

I think I have proof that William did lie about his age when he married Lillian.

Last night I took William's birth information shown on Family Search and put the details into Scotlands People.  I was really trying to find the codes that would allow me to send for a birth certificate.  However I was able to download an official birth entry "1869 Black, William (Statutory Births 644/10 0875)".  All the information shown matches what I already have, so this is definitely "our" William, and confirms birth date of 28th April 1869.  So he was 51 when he married Lillian, not 41 as he said. 

Is this document proof enough? 

Anne

[elaine447]

Anne
sorry I have not been able to do any research for a couple of day's
(workmen in the house) 
if the parents match what you already have
I would say you have found your man,
and you should be able to download Henry and Isabella's marriage cert
this would help you get back another generation, 

Elaine

[Hemmum]

Hi Anne
I am not sure if this information may help.
I have Lily (reg as Lily Trigg) in my tree. Her father was a carpenter (a Wheeler Sergeant)  in the Royal Artillery. I have his military career if you are interested. You say at the time of their marriage William Black and Lilian were living in Shoebury which is a Garrison town and that William was in the Army. Perhaps William Black was also in the Royal Artillery (as were Lily's brothers) perhaps that is how they met.

I had a quick look through and found
William Black born 1878 Barony Glasgow attested 1897 aged 19 yrs 3 months Royal Garrison Artillery Edinburgh
Single (no n of kin)
This would put his date of birth to the age he gives on his marriage certificate.

This may obviously be another William Black. Did he have any children from his first marriage?
Army families can sometimes be very illusive and they do 'get around'