Wiliam Black and his father Henry Black, Glasgow, Essex and Dorset

[maisiemo]

Not sure where to post this as I am not certain of the counties involved.  Please move as necessary.

I am new to searching family history (2 months), am registered with FindMyPast and have had some success with other branches of our family.  However I am now stuck with the Black family line. 
William Black was my husband’s grandfather.  I have sent for his marriage certificate which shows as follows 
Marriage date 3 July 1920
William Black aged 41 years, Widower, Wood machinist, Father - Henry Black (deceased), Stationer
Lilian Trigg, aged 30 years, Spinster, Cook (domestic), Father - Samuel Trigg (deceased), Carpenter
At the time of the marriage William and Lilian lived at 12 Smith Street, Shoeburyness, Essex.
Witnesses are S. Trigg and A Trigg, who are Lilian’s siblings.  From here I can trace the Trigg family back without difficulty. 

My problem is with William Black.  Although the current generations of Black family are in England, my husband remembers his mother telling him that her father (William Black) came from Greenock in Renfrewshire originally.  We have no idea when the move from Scotland to England took place.

I have searched both England/Wales BMD records, and Scotlands People, for William’s birth/baptism, his death and also tried to find some trace of his first wife and possible children from that marriage.  Although that is not essential to our family tree, it would be interesting to find out.  I have also searched the census records.  So far I haven’t been able to find any of this, nor can I find anything on Henry Black, William’s father.  I have used 1879 +/- one year as Williams date of birth, calculated from his being 41 when he married in 1920.

I apologise in advance if I have missed doing something I should have done.  I assume I do not have enough information right now, to send for his birth/death certificates.  I would be very grateful for some help with all this.

Anne

[elaine447]

Hi maisiemo
Welcome to Rootschat
not sure if this helps
as Black is quite a common name in Greenock 
on Inverclyde intimations there is a death of a Henry Black
who drowned at sea 1886
this is the only Henry Black mentioned on there,
that
Henry Black married Charlotte McIntyre in Greenock 1874,
1881 census
Hendry Black born 1851 Greenock occupation sea man
Charlotte Black born 1855 Greenock
Alan Black born 1877 Greenock
John Black born 1879 Greenock
Margaret Black born 1880 Greenock
Anne McIntyre (charlotte's mother) born 1816 Greenock
no sign of a William with them though,
Scotlands people has these births,
there is also a birth on there for a William born between 1879 and 1881
Elaine

[jorose]

Are you in touch with descendants of/know what happened to all the kids of William and Lillian?  Might anybody remember the name of a step-sibling, uncle/aunt, other relative who they got letters from?

Although I won't list them as they may still be living, there are a number of kids on freebmd, surnamed Black, mother's maiden name Trigg. Judging by these births and some of the marriages, the family seem to have moved from the Rochford district to Weymouth - does this sound right?

Lilian Black d. Mar 1951 Weymouth district aged 60.
a possible for William is the man d. Sep 1939 Weymouth district, also aged 60.
(However the death certificate is unlikely to be of much help).

http://www.findmypast.co.uk/search/army-service-records/all
 - there are some hits here for a William Black, b. 1879 Greenock - might be worth a look?

[maisiemo]

Thank you very much Elaine and Jorose for your replies.

Jorose - My husband read your words about being in touch with family members and surprised me by phoning his elderly mother, which has not happened for a long time, so a special thank you for that. 

I had identified the more recent births and marriages you mentioned - my husband remembered enough for me to find them.  You were correct about the family moving from Essex to Weymouth, the younger generations are still mostly there.  Today’s phone call did bring several surprises.  William Black lived in Glasgow, not Greenock.  He moved to England about 1919/1920 shortly before he met Lillian.  William had a sister they called Belle, presumably Isabella. His first wife died in childbirth but no details of names/dates etc.  William was in the Army, again dates not known. 

I am very sorry I gave wrong information, i.e. Greenock.  It was what we had been told.  Oh dear, all those names you found for me in Scotland, Elaine.  I spent this morning trying to match them to what I had already - no wonder they didn’t fit!

I really appreciate your help.

Anne

[elaine447]

Hi Anne
That is ok we all get told things that turn out not
to be true,
have you found them on the 1881 census in Glasgow
Elaine

[maisiemo]

Hi Elaine

I found several William Blacks on the 1881 census but only one whose father is Henry, and there is no Isabella in the family, although I am aware she could have been born later.  When I look for William and Isabella in later census, I do not find them.

Anne

[elaine447]

This looks like them
1881 census
address 193 Waddell Street Hutchesontown Lanarkshire
Henry Black born 1839 Lanarkshire occupation stationer Porter
Isabella Black born 1836 Gallowayshire wife
Isabella Black born 1868 Glasgow message girl
William Black born 1870 Glasgow scholar (out by about 10 years) though going by age at death
Henry Black born 1875 Glasgow
Haven't came across them in 1891 yet still looking
Elaine

[elaine447]

Anne
if that is the right family I think this could be Henry's marriage,
Henry Black married Isabella Greer 1865 in Penninghame Wigtown
the marriage and the births of the children can be found here
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0o30/
Elaine

[Spidermonkey]

I think I have found Henry Black jnr's (i.e. brother of William) military record.  He says he was born in Govan, and gives his sister Bella as his next of kin.  She is living at 138 (bit of a splodge for an 8!) West Graham St, Glasgow.