A brick wall with Mary and John

[familysleuth]

Thanks everyone... I do have their deaths - they are both buried at Orepuki with their  son Mathew and his wife Elizabeth.
My missing info is the ship(s)..... any clues???

[kiwihalfpint]

May not be your guy ..... Ireland isn't mentioned as his country, but near the birth year.

A J White travelled from Melbourne to NZ 12 May 1864 arriving at Port Chalmers on the ship Alhambra. He was aged 31, single, occupation was Miner, country put down as England.

PROV VPRS 948 LDS Film 0284495   

Cheers
KHP   

[familysleuth]

Kiwi,  that is a distinct possibility - of anywhere, Port Chalmers would have  been the port most likely for them to enter NZ. ...... I looked up 'ships to NZ' and found many they could have came on, but none with passenger  lists - I have cross-checked with the 'yesteryears' site, but only cabin passengers are noted: may I ask you how you found that listing? I see that the Alhambra made a number of journeys with cargo and passengers about that time.

Entering Australia for John, I have only been able to find one possible - a convict listing. However, I suspect it is more likely that he came over to make his fortune with gold, like so many others.

Thanks again!!!!!

[kiwihalfpint]

may I ask you how you found that listing?

Thanks again!!!!!

I have a copy of the Passenger Lists from Victoria, Melbourne to NZ 1852-1923 on disc. These are the same lists that is on the Public Record Office of Victoria (PROV) Melbourne website.

With passenger lists, when I was transcribing them, not always was there an initial, sometimes it was Mr Blogs and Family, J Blogs, and sometimes just Blogs.  Not much help for the genealogists to find their family.   Also the clerk would just put the name down how it sounded to their ear with the different accents. The writing of the clerk was sometimes difficult to read .. another reason why searching a name doesn't come up

Cheers
KHP

[familysleuth]

Yes, of all the records, I find the passenger lists the most frustrating (except for very old parish records which can be incomprehensible!)

I did look at the index on the Vic govt site.... much earlier on, and discarded  it, because I found only accompanied John Whites with children. I've just re-entered  the search using J White, and found the index info that is a possibility - I  need to be more careful with the searches!!

John White turns up as a very common name entering Australia within 10 years of the marriage date - I think it would be quite difficult to weed through them without spending a lot of money. Lots are still there in 1900 which rule them out anyway. Without particular family info, I don't believe I can get too far with this one. Another avenue could be searching for family members - sisters or brothers. *sigh*

[BegClonrode ....]

This information comes from their respective death registrations

Hello...

Can't help with the ship (sorry) but can I suggest you start a thread requesting a look-up of John and Mary's ITM.

On a recent NZ thread a girl (also called Mary) was supposed to have arrived in NZ in 1859. This was worked out from the information on her death certificate (her year of death minus the number of years in NZ).

However the informant for the death certificate seems to have got it wrong by ten years because in 1863 when Mary filled in her ITM she herself said she had been resident for 14 years. So she had arrived in NZ by at least 1849.

Not saying that your information is wrong but it's easy enough to double-check it.

If your info is wrong, it will give you a different time period in which to look.

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Here's an example of an ITM look-up thread (in fact it's the ITM request thread of the Mary I just mentioned)...

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,599584.0.html

If you do start an ITM request thread include the names (John WHITE and Mary NELLEN**), the date of marriage (10 Oct 1865) and the location of marriage (Dunedin).

Mary NELLON (or Nailon; Nelan; Nellin etc

**I used the spelling found on the Presbyterian Archives website


Regards
Beg

[familysleuth]

Thank you so much Beg, I did not know about the ITM's .

Since these are made my the people concerned, I see your point...... (I could  also get another spelling for Mary's surname  ). Is the only way to find these out by actual look up, or can I write to request?  I ask because I have another 'brick wall' to verify, that of my g grandfather Thomas Joyce whom I  think I have an immigration date  for, but am not certain. this may be some added information there too. I don't  like to inconvenience anyone -  its so kind of people to  do lookups!! and this seems a bit complex....

cheers, and thank you for the information!!!!

[BegClonrode ....]

Hello FamilySleuth...

Yes, you can order ITM's from the Archives NZ website. It costs NZ$8.00 per ITM. I think they email a scan of the actual ITM to you.

Here is the fees page...

http://archives.govt.nz/research/ordering-archives/our-research-and-copying-services/our-research-services/price-list

Here is the "Ordering an ITM" page...

http://archives.govt.nz/research/ordering-archives/our-research-and-copying-services/our-research-services/intentions-marry

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It's not as immediate but if you start an ITM request thread some kind rootschatter visiting Wellington archives will look-up the ITM and copy out the details for you. Possibly even take a photo of the ITM and email it to you. There is no charge to you except for the debt of gratitude.

If you have the date and location for the marriage of your g-grandfather Thomas JOYCE you may as well request a look-up for his ITM too. If the marriage is pre-1881 you don't need to mention the date or the location, although if you know them you may as well mention them in your request.

You may have to wait a week or so for someone to visit the Archives but I've been told patience is a virtue :-)

Regards
Beg

[kiwihalfpint]

You may have to wait a week or so for someone to visit the Archives but I've been told patience is a virtue :-)

Regards
Beg

Beg is right, our Wellington looker ups are a bit on the thin side at the moment, but the look ups eventually get done. 

Cheers
KHP