Robert Brogden Bolton

[gainduff]

Trying to trace parents/siblings of Robert Brogden of Bolton, born abt 1812.
As far as I know he married a Elizabeth Abrams/Abrahams at St Nicholas Liverpool in Nov 1835.
1841 census has him in Upper Henderson St, West Derby, with wife and family. Subsequently he resided in Birkenhead until his death in 1879; a shipwright by trade.
Have tried variations on name and possibility that it was Bolton Yorks, but nothing seems to fit.  IGI has a Robert Brogdin christened in Manchester in 1811 by Marshall Brogdin, but don't know how likely that is, and cant trace a Marshall apart from a death in Huddersfield in 1854?
Any ideas?

[crisane]

The 1841 census has he and Elizabeth with children Ann 5, Mary 3, Elizabeth 1 living in Toxteth Park
HO107/568 book 16 folio 10 page 12. This census says Not born in county for all of them.
All later censuses have them living in Birkenhead but Robert always born in Bolton Lancashire.

From 1851 on Ann 1837, Mary 1838, Elizabeth 1841, and Thomas 1842 all born Birkenhead.
Elizabeth the mother is also born Runcorn Cheshire.
The only child born in Liverpool is James 1846 Then it is back to Birkenhead for Eleanor 1849 John 1851, William 1856 and george

Getting a birth cert for one of his children will give you the mother's maiden name and then a marriage may be easier to find.

Could the marriage have been in Elizabeth's home county? and where the first 3 children were born.

[crisane]

Possibly James' birth
James Brogden
FreeBMD
March 1/4 1846 Liverpool 20/536

I have been looking at everything you have probably already looked at and there is not even a hint 

[Radcliff]

St Thomas Ardwick
17th of November 1816
Maria Brogden
daughter of Marchel and Sarah
father a labourer
abode Ardwick

13th of December 1818
Sarah Brogden
daughter of Marshall Brogden and Sarah
abode Ardwick
father a gardener

[Radcliff]

1841 census
Carrathy Croft ?
Dewsbury Yorkshire
HO107/1268
Marshall Brogden aged 65,gardener
Sarah Brogden aged 50,
Frederic Brogden aged 15,apprentice
Marshall Brogden aged 5
all born in county

[Radcliff]

Frederick marries Sarah Fox, Dewsbury 1845, father Marshall a gardener

[gainduff]

Hi Crisane, yes this is the family; they ended up with 10 children?. Didn't realise 1841 census had all of them out of county births. Knew Elizabeth Abrams/Abrahams born in Cheshire.  Working on info from online records for St Nicholas for marriage on 16 Nov 1835.
Thanks Radcliff, is this St Thomas Ardwick the one in Greater Manchester? now the St Thomas Centre, just south of the city centre? Seems to fit with what I have subsequently found out about Marshall; born Ilkley 1773ish illegitimate son of Margaret Brogden, married a Sarah from Mytholmroyd and in 1841 a gardener which seems to tie in with your records for Ardwick; possibly died Dewsbury Aug 1854. Now I need to try and trace the marriage between Marshall and Sarah.
Thanks again for all the info.

[garstonite]

The marriage is on
www.lan-opc.org.uk/Search/indexp.html
if you put in
robert brogden
all events
search
you will find the marriage- they were married by Montague Hawtrey
Robert - a Shipwright
Elizabeth Abrams a spinster
there is a possible baptism .which is close to Bolton ....have a look and see what you think

allan
ADDED...how far is Downham (Pendle Hill ) from Bolton ?...anyone know...just checked ...25 miles ...seems a bit far

[gainduff]

Thanks garstonite, think I'd looked at the Downham baptism but as far as I can remember ties in with subsequent census entries for Brogdens in Burnley and Whalley?
Still can't make out the Bolton connection, if my Robert was baptised at Manchester Cathedral 21 Jul 1811.
Would there be any Bolton records of pew rents for Marshall Brogdin/Brogden or other records pre official census to prove residence in the area.?
Alternatively  was there an area within Manchester called Bolton in the early 19th century?
Another thought I had was that I remember seeing  posts regarding Brogdens in Bolton being of Irish descent, so perhaps he was in fact Irish; just seems to me a long way to go to baptise your child, Bolton to the Manchester cathedral. But having said that have had no luck tracing a Robert Brogden born Manchester around 1811/12 in subsequent census returns.