Toronto streets, about 1840

[polarbear]

Debbie and all,

There is another tree with Samuel Thompson Fielding that has parents of Margaret H (Henderson) Lockhart as John and Ellen (no Maiden surname) Lockhart.

The marriage index image for the marriage of Henry Fielding and Maggie H Lockhart is also available to view through this tree and corroborates the marriage date given above (in case it wasn't on the other tree).

PB

[JaneyCanuck]

Yup, polarbear, that is the John and Ellen Lockhart in the 1850 census. They had a daughter Margaret in that census who must have died within months, since Margaret Henderson Lockhart was baptised in 1851, and she is the one living with Margaret Cloyd in the next census who then married Fielding.

One never knows what people might know but have not put in their tree!


We've moved on a page - I was posting a query about Robert Lockhart at the bottom of the previous page as you were posting - I'm poking around at Presbyterian church history in New Orleans now ........

edit - from 1902:
http://www.storyvilledistrictnola.com/churches_nola.html

The church would have been one of

Canal Street Presbyterian Church
Corner of Canal and Derbigny Street

First Presbyterian Church
(complicated history, not sure where the church built in 1857 is
... ah, the church's website says it was Lafayette Square)

Lafayette Church
On Magazine, between Jackson Avenue and Philip

So which one was nearest his home in Ward 3 .......

edit: Lafayette Square is in the third ward, so First Presbyterian, most likely.
Its website: http://www.fpcno.org/

In 1901, Robert was on North Street, which no longer seems to exist, but the next household was on Poydras Street, which is adjacent to Lafayette Square.

[cosmac]

The 1840 John Cloyd  Troy census breaks down as
10 free white people in the household
Males           10-14  - 1
                    15-19 -  2
                    50-59 -  1
Females       5-9      - 1
                    10-14  - 4
                    40-49  - 1

Debbie

[JaneyCanuck]

Oh, thank you! I had just nagged you by PM before I saw this.

So no Robert Lockhart in the household (he would have been 6 yrs old) -- but I wonder who the three under-20 males were! with Richard being off in his own household. (Who is in that one??) The two 15-19 could be boarders / young upholsterer employees, I guess.

And five of the six Cloyd girls from 1850, with one old enough to be off as a domestic servant or such somewhere else.

There was a Cloyd girl in 1850, Rebecca, born c1834, i.e. aged 5-9, but we know of no Lockhart girl who would have been that age.

I would imagine that Robert Lockhart's 1901 census info is accurate -- that he immigrated to the US from Canada in 1836.

So in 1840, the Lockhart family was somewhere in the US, but not with the Cloyd family.

[JaneyCanuck]

Here's something.

1840 US census, in Cobleskill, Schoharie, NY -- looks like just under 40 miles east of Troy on what is now Interstate 88.

Oops, I left out the name! -- William Lockhard. They do not seem to be there in 1850.

Nine free white persons in total.

3 are aged 20-49.
5 are under 20.
So 1 is 50 or over.

Two parents, two adult children, and five younger children?

Children under 20 in 1840 could have been old enough to marry around 1850 (John, Jane and Margaret Lockhart in Troy/Lansingburgh).

And an Ellen born c1816 would have been 24ish in 1840 ... one of the adult children?

Margaret Henderson Lockhart Cloyde shows in 1850 as aged 60 / born in 1790, which would make her 50 in 1840. A little rounding in 1850, and she would be 49 in 1840. Lockhart and Henderson married in 1811 so could have children nearly 30 yrs old in 1840.

So ... we need the breakdown! And is there a male person aged 5 to 9 in that household??



And here's one I somehow missed in the 1850 US census.

Fanny Lockhart, aged 38 / born c1812, no occupation stated, born Canada (or hm, immigrated from Canada?), in Albany. Oh my oh my -- she is a "Penientiary Convict"! For "Disorderly".

Not something one would likely be locked up for, for long. Our very bad luck that she decided to get disorderly the week of the census.


And oh my goodness, more -- this one spelled the German way.

William Lockhardt, aged 23 / born c1827, born in Canada, in Buffalo. Living in the household of Mary Jewett born in Scotland with a daughter born in Canada and a daughter born in NY, next door to a Thomas (Santas?), 27, born in Scotland.

And the occupation of this William Lockhardt and his next-door neighbour?

Upholsterer.

If he was in fact born in Canada, and if he is part of our Lockhart clan, this could help to date their presence in Canada before 1836.

[cosmac]

1840 census for William Lockhard Cobleskill
Males
under 5    1
5-9           1
10-14       1
30-39       1
Females
5-9           1
10-14       1
20-29       1
30-39       1
60-69       1

Your William Lockhardt, age 23 in Buffalo was born in Scotland not Canada.  I looked for him in later census as an upholsterer and only found one possible entry in Shelby Memphis Tennessee.
Wm Lockhart, b. 1830 Scotland, upholsterer, boarding with  many unrelated names and professions.  Entry directly underneath his was John Casey, 28, plasterer born in Canada.  In later census occupations don't line up for William under simple searches of his last name.

Debbie

[JaneyCanuck]

Sorry, I confused myself on young William the upholsterer -- of course it says born in Scotland where I was looking, not Canada.

And he's in Shelby Tennesee thereafter, you say.

Well my my. Robert Lockhart 1834 Canada is in Shelby Tennessee in 1860 -- as RH Lockhart (I think I vaguely alluded to that a while back; it's the only other record I've found of him before 1900 in Louisiana).

In 1860, RH Lockhart, 1834 Canada, is in
Shelby, Tennessee
Ward:    Third Ward Memphis
-- I can see that at FS, but not the image.

And sure enough, there is Wm Lockhart, 1830 Scotland, in
Shelby, Tennessee
Ward:    2nd Ward City Of Memphis

Want to have a look at Robert and see what he's up to?

Regardless, I think we have here another member of the William Lockhart + Margaret Henderson family, and another narrowing of the time frames.

William born 1830 Scotland
Sometime between 1830 and 1834, the family went to Canada.
Robert born 1834 Canada
Robert (and presumably the rest) immigrated to the US in 1836.


And hang on -- 1880, William Lockhart, 1831 Scotland, plumber, in Chicago, wife Maria born in New York State.
Also there in 1870, same details, occupation miller.

Oh, weird. There's a double.

In 1880, in Kansas, farmer, born 1830 Scotland, wife Mary, 10 years younger, born NY state.
And in 1900, in Kansas, born Feb 1831 Scotland, farmer -- but with immigration year of 1831.

No, I think the one in Kansas is a strange shadow. I wonder, though, whether there might be a cousin relationship.


In 1870 and 1880 what seems to be the William from NY state and Tennessee is in Chicago where everybody else is, he's born in Scotland and wife is born in NY state -- it's the same one, I'd say, 1850-1880, jack of all trades though he was.


But the 1840 William Lockhart household ... it's a couple aged 30-39 with their kids, it looks like, and a widowed mother. Doesn't fit our Lockharts in Rensselaer County ...

[JaneyCanuck]

And here's something funny:

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,595985.msg4586311.html#msg4586311

Black's Surnames, has the name Crevie/Crevey, curtailed forms of MacCrevie, and Clerie in Galloway. I don't see anything for Clezie etc'. Given that "Z" was the Scots letter "Yoch" and generally pronounced as "Y", how was it pronounced?


Reply 36, page 4, in this thread:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,601912.msg4579515.html#msg4579515

Cloyde might easily be a mangled version of Clezie!  We have seen Clazie, Clazey, Clayse, Clayce, Clacy, Clezy, Clazy, even Clizzee.
There was a John Clazey, born late 1787 or early '88, last known at Ford, Northumberland, in the 1841 census, then... went walkabout, disappeared, left wife and children behind.  Wouldn't it be a wonder if you have tracked him down!


The only problem is that while we have established that John Cloyd did have children in England, he appears to have had children in NY state in the 1830s and been residing there in 1840 ... Dang. But it still does open the door to lots more speculation. 

[T. Michael Sommers]

James Clezie & Ellen Lockhart married at Troy, New York, 11 June 1840.  The best guess so far is that they met in Toronto and eloped.  But it is only a guess.  Their children were:
...
William James (source of William is unknown; James from the father)

William could be the wife's father.