Toronto streets, about 1840

[JaneyCanuck]

It isn't just "Ontario" in the case of the Lanark County family -- it's Lanark County, Ontario. I'm just not aware of much emigration from there to the US in that era. Lanark County was agrarian and reasonably prosperous by 1840 (the settling and clearing by Scottish and Irish immigrants was in the early 1820s), and people did not have the tendency to migrate south for opportunity. And yes, the St Lawrence was frozen (and there was considerable "cross-border shopping", even during the War of 1812, e.g.), but Lanark County is a distance from the St Lawrence. The Rideau Canal did run through Perth, of course, from 1831 onward. But for a young woman to have made her way alone from a farm in Lanark County to Troy, NY state, in the early 1800s (as would have been the case for a Lockhart daughter from Ramsay Township, since that family otherwise remained there), that would have been pretty odd, I would think.

Just for info on the settlement of that area:
http://globalgenealogy.com/countries/canada/ontario/lanark/resources/101063.htm

The York county area and southwestern Ontario, on the western end of Lake Ontario, that's different. Urbanization on both sides, economic development, lots of crossing over. With James Clezie's family being in Toronto, that would be the most likely Canadian source area for Ellen Lockhart, if she entered the US from Canada.

But I'm really still with other opinion expressed here: that Ellen Lockhart more likely did not enter the US via Canada, and rather entered directly from Scotland either alone (e.g. to work as a domestic servant) or with family, and she and James more likely met in the Troy area where she was based. She would have gone to Toronto after the marriage simply as his wife, going to her husband's family's home base, and not because she had roots there herself.

Just speculation, of course!


Oh - and don't forget the Jane Lockhart who was in the 1850 census and married in the same area in 1853, if I'm remembering correctly.

[JaneyCanuck]

I think I posted before about John Lockhart born c1820 Scotland, living in Lansingburgh, Rensselaer, New York, in 1850 (with wife Ellen and children).

The 1820 census shows a John Lockart in Troy, Rensselaer county. Presumably he is a head of household, and very possibly the father of the John 1820 living in Lansingburgh in 1850, I might think.

I would really consider that family as the source of Ellen, who could be a daughter of the elder John / sister of the younger John. The 1820 image is available at Anc'y.

The Jane (1826), Robert (1834 but in Canada so maybe not) and Margaret (married 1842) seen in other records in the vicinity could be other children of the same father.

[polarbear]

Have you looked at the Troy NY film with the actual full original parish records on it? You indicated yesterday that you were going to order the film (see reply #60) so I am assuming not? As I mentioned yesterday, familyseach does not necessarily put everything in their extracts that is in the record itself. IMHO, you should not leave this stone unturned. The nominal coast of the film rental would be worth the price even if you glean no further info from it.

PB

[heiserca]

LDS Family History Centre has limited hours; when they are open, and my work schedule allows, the film will be ordered.

Until then, its all speculation; no evidence.

Marriage records don’t show names of parents.  Dead end.   

U.S census 1840 only names the head of family; the rest were mere numbers.  Dead end.

[JaneyCanuck]

Absolutely, if you haven't seen the full record, as polarbear says, get it!
adding in response to last post: "Marriage records don’t show names of parents.  Dead end."

Are you saying that records there always do not show names of parents, or just that what you have seen so far (transcribed) doesn't show them?



Remember the Cloydes?

In 1850, John and Ellen Lockhart in Rensselaer Cty NY have a daughter Margaret born c1849.

In the next census, 1860, that Margaret Lockheart c1851 NY is living in Chicago with Margaret Cloyd c1791 (Chicago is where that Margaret Cloyde from the 1850 died) in a McNeill household.

Robert Lockhart 1834 Canada is in that same John & Margaret Cloyde household in Rensselaer Cty NY in 1850, working at the same occupation as John Cloyde (see my post 35 on page 4).

It does look like the Lockhart children of John 1820 and his wife Margaret are grandchildren of the Cloyd(e) couple. (Not sure how Robert Lockhart born c1834 in Canada fits into it. If John Lockhart c1820 Scotland was married to a Cloyde, his children would be Cloyde grandchildren. Robert Lockhart would maybe be John Lockhart brother, i.e. his wife's brother-in-law ...)

I'm looking at all this stuff at Ancestry using only the free search and seeing what records tell me when I hover over the link. The full details might be more illuminating (e.g. does the 1860 specify that Margaret Lockheart in Chicago, born c1851 in NY, is a niece of Alex McNeill's much younger wife Jane born c1824 Scotland, whether Margaret Cloyd is mother-in-law of McNeill, etc.).

At her death in Cook Cty, she is Margaret Henderson Cloyde, born in Paisley, Scotland c1789. John Cloyde shows in 1850 as born c1787 in Scotland.

She was probably Margaret Henderson 17 Dec 1797, Abbey (Paisley), Renfrew, Scotland, daughter of James Henderson and Ann Knox.

I can't figure out the Cloyd(e) business. In 1850 there is a James Cloyd born c1798 living in Hoboken NJ whose place of birth I just can't read at FS (with apparent children Harriet and John G, and grandchildren? Adelia and Madeline who must have been transcribed differently), but that's the only other trace I see. Can't find a birth for John c1820 son of John Cloyd and Margaret (Henderson) in Scotland.

This is info relating to Lockharts in Rensselaer Cty NY that I would give some thought to!


Adding: in 1880, John Lockhart, widowed, born c1820 Scotland, is also in Chicago. I'd say he's the John Lockhart who was in Rensselaer Cty NY in 1840, likely brother of Jane, Margaret, Robert.

I've added several more bits of information to the above as well.

[JaneyCanuck]

In 1850 in the Cloyde household in Rensselaer Cty NY there is a John Boyd c1827 Scotland.

In trying to find a Jane for the Jane McNeill in the 1860 household in Chicago born v1824 Scotland, who I am guessing is a daughter of Margaret Cloyd in the household, I found this birth:

Jean Boyd
18 feb 1826
Lesmahagow, Lanark, Scotland
father John Boyd
mother Margret Henderson
batch C11649-5
Other children of same parents in that batch: Andrew 1823, Janet 1828, John 1821
And also: Grizzle (I kid you not) 1819.

Is Cloyd just some strange misreading of Boyd??

Mary Dow born c1819 Scotland in the 1850 Cloyde household, with three toddlers born in NFLD and NY, has to be a Cloyde daughter as well.

Oh, and: in 1840 there is John Cloyd in Troy and also Richard Cloyd in Troy. In 1870, Richard A Cloyde - upholsterer - born c1822 NY is in NYC with wife and no children.


To try another nutshell:

There is some connection between the young Lockharts in Rensselaer Cty NY in the 1840-1855 period and this John & Margaret Cloyde couple born in the 1790s in Scotland.

Robert Lockhart c1834 Canada is living with them in Troy NY in 1850.
Margaret Lockhart c1850 NY, daughter of John Lockhart c1820 Scotland, is living with them in Chicago in 1860.

If our Ellen Lockhart were another sister of John, Jane, Margaret (and Robert?), she would be connected with the Cloyds by what seems to be the marriage of John Lockhart c1820 Scotland to a Margaret in NY state.

[JaneyCanuck]

I'm sure I'm boring you to tears, but it beats working, for me.

http://ngb.chebucto.org/Vstats/vs-24-presb-bap-2-stj.shtml

(did a general search at ngb.chebucto.org for George Dow - Mary Dow's two eldest children in the Cloyde household in 1850 were Margaret and George, so I figured that name would catch her son or her husband)

Mary Henderson Dow
father George DOW
mother Mary LOCKART (LOCKHART)    
born July 25 1847 at St. Johns NFLD
baptised Aug 12 1847

So when the 1850 US census says she was born in NY, it seems to be incorrect. -- Oh, no, oops, the one in 1850 is a month old, so is a replacement Mary. Or is the child shown as Margaret in the 1850, and the Nfld baptism record should say Margaret. Baptism of George Dow 1849, same parents, is also on that page.

So anyhow, I think this is what we're seeing.

Margaret c1797 wife of John Cloyde was originally Margaret Henderson and married to a Lockhart.

These Lockhart children, now including Mary c1819 Scotland, were her children by her first marriage.
So Robert c1834 Canada would likely be a child of a son of Margaret Henderson Lockhart before her marriage to Cloyde? Or a nephew ... or something ...

Margaret Henderson married William Lockhart, 07 Sep 1811, High Church, Paisley, Renfrew, Scotland
(Note that Margaret Cloyde's death record gives place of birth as Paisley.)

A Mary Lockhart born 01 Jun 1830 in Scotland died 1910 in Chicago.

There are loads of Loc*rt births in Paisley at FS, but none with parents William Lockhart and Margaret Henderson.

Records that are there:

Mary Lockhart married George Dow 14 Sep 1846, Glasgow, Scotland.

Margaret H White, born 25 Jul 1847 in NFLD, mother Mary Lockhart born England, father Geo Dow, died in Chicago 19 Dec 1915.


I know nothing about passenger records.

I wonder whether there would be any record of William and Margaret Lockhart and children travelling to the US or Canada, or John and Margaret Cloyd/e(?) ...

[heiserca]

Unfortunately all those names mean nothing.  Not the slightest hint of a connection to Ellen/Helen.  Still have idea who were her parents, or where.  Pure guessing.

[JaneyCanuck]

Well, of course they mean nothing -- because you know nothing of Ellen's family. Are we not keeping an open mind / thinking outside the box, now?

What they are, is a Lockhart - Rensselaer county connection. And that's at least as plausible a source to look at for your Ellen as an elopement of an unidentiable Ellen Lockhart from Toronto to Troy.

Is this all not a matter of leaving no stone unturned?

This is the only stone I'm seeing to turn, at the moment.

A family of Lockharts in Rensselaer county, where your Ellen Lockhart married.

And compiling all the info one can about them, to see how/whether your Ellen might belong to them.

Either finding a connection in records, or finding descendants of the Rensselaer county Lockharts who know about their ancestry and can confirm or deny a connection.

As I've mentioned, I've spent years doing that with one particular family of mine -- the mysterious name-shifting gr-grfather. I finally, a few years apart, found a descendant of each of his surviving sisters. One had a family tale as nonsensical as the one I had, but different (her ancestor, the sister of mine, was allegedly a "Miss Montmorency from France" when she was in fact a Miss Hill from Cornwall); the other, whose own gr-grfather was even worse than his wife, sister of my gr-grfather, for name-shifting, had a completely fantabulous and false tale of both her ancestor's name and his origin, and had never heard of his wife, her own gr-grmother, my gr-grfather's sister. So finding descendants is not always helpful! But I've just found a mutual descendant of my grx4 grandparents in Nottinghamshire, over on that board, and that may well help me find my missing link between them and me.


A Margaret Lockhart married Samuel Thompson 1852, Second Street Presbyterian Church, Troy, Rensselaer Cty, NY - same church as Ellen's marriage

A Jane Lockhart married Robert Leach 1853, First Presbyterian Church, Lansingburgh, Rensselaer Cty, NY

At the latter church we also have baptisms of the children of a John Lockhart.

Margaret Lockhart 1851 who appeared in the 1860 census in Chicago with Margaret Henderson Lockhart Cloyd was apparently a replacement for the Margaret Lockhart daughter of John and Ellen Lockhart in the 1850 census:

Margaret Henderson Lockhart christened 08 1851
First Presbyterian Church, Lansingburgh, Rensselaer Cty, NY
father John Lockhart
mother Helen (appear as Ellen in census)
film 533484

-- middle name Henderson, clear indication of connection to Margaret Henderson Lockhart Cloyde, of course; John Lockhart, father, would be the son of William Lockhart and Margaret Henderson who married in Paisley in 1811.

Also
Ellen Robina Lockhart, same parents and place, christened 1854
Elizabeth Faulkner Lockhart, same parents and place, 1852

Not exactly the same place as your Ellen's marriage, but same county, same era, and same denomination. 


The fact that baptisms for none of the apparent children of William Lockhart and Margaret Henderson born in Scotland after their 1811 marriage can be found (by me at present) -- edit: that's cannot be found by me --  suggests to me that it's quite possible they had a daughter Ellen/Helen along with Mary, John, Jane?, Robert? ... all of whom appear in censuses in Rensselaer Cty NY. The parish records that would show their children's births just don't seem to be at FS.

And in view of the connection between the mother, Margaret Henderson Lockhart Cloyde, and Robert Lockhart born c1834 Canada, in the 1850 census (son? grandson?), there may even be a Candian connection there after all.


The William Lockhart + Margaret Henderson 1811 marriage is shown at ScotlandsPeople. SP also shows 4 Lockhart births 1811-1835 in Renfrew County to a William and Margaret (5 births in total using spelling Loc*rt). I can't see any more detail, but guessing finds Mary, Jean and John. Those births do not appear to be shown at FS. I couldn't guess who the fourth birth was, but it was apparently not *len or el*.

Process of elimination ... dog with bone ... the fourth child's name began with A...r...c -- ?? Oh of course, Archibald. But Jean was spelled Lochhart, so that leaves one. And that one didn't seem to start with any of the 26 letters of the alphabet. What am I doing wrong? It would take 1 credit to see the 5 Loc*rt births 1811-1835 to William and Margaret!

Argh, it was a third "J". Janet.


I wonder whether the middle initial H for Robert H Lockhart c1834 Canada was for Henderson.

(I need to clear my eyes. I just read the name of the mother of a Monroe Henderson Lockhart at FS as Fattie May Roy. Mattie Fay ...)

(I've tidied and added a bit to this message too.)


And I have to ask one more thing: does the marriage record for Ellen Lockhart and James Clezie definitely say that she was unmarried at the time of that marriage?

She was about 24 at the time, if born 1816. William Lockhart and Margaret Henderson married in 1811. It's conceivable that they had a son, name unknown, born 1811-1818-ish, who married an Ellen and died, making Ellen a Lockhart by marriage and daughter-in-law of Margaret Henderson Lockhart Cloyde. Just a thought.