Toronto streets, about 1840

[JaneyCanuck]

Excellent that you pursued the ruling out process, even if the result wasn't as hoped. (And isn't it great that enough info is provided in Scottish marriage records that they can be matched up with births, for doing that!)

Don't forget -- surname variations. Lockart, e.g. A search at SP shows 2 matches for Helen Lockart 1810-1820 ... narrowing the search, they were both 1818-1820.

Familysearch shows only the one christened 16 Nov 1820, father John, Abernethy, Perth. But there is, just for another example:

Helen Lochart, 1818, Abbotshall, Fife, parents Robert Lochart and Margaret Lockhart. I would expect that the mother's surname was actually intended to be the same as the father's, but possibly that was her own surname. There's a Margaret there. Just as another example.


Depending on what Ohio death certificates show (and what the informant knew), getting the death cert, if you don't have it, seems like a pretty good idea!

[heiserca]

New York marriage record, 1840, shows only: names of parties; date & place of marriage; signature of clergyman.

1860 census says she was born 1816, Scotland; nothing else useful.

1870 census, can't find her.

1880 census says she was born 1819, Scotland; nothing else useful.

1890 census, can't find her.

Death certificate shows only name; last address; date of death; cause of death "old age"; name of undertaker.

Alternate spellings: Lochhart, Lockhard, Lockheart, no clear results.

Nothing puts us any farther ahead in terms of finding her origin.  What would Sherlock Holmes do now?

[JaneyCanuck]

Probably try to trace
Helen Lochart, 1818, Abbotshall, Fife, parents Robert Lochart and Margaret Lockhart.

And anybody else who looked possible!

What seems to be the parents' marriage in that case shows at familysearch as Robert Lockhart + Margaret Lockhart (and vice versa), 1818, Abbotshall. She is the only birth showing to them at familysearch.

signed, Watson

PS - just looking at the 1851 Cdn census, you have surnames Lockhart, Lockart, Lockert, Lochart, for example. Also, possibly mistranscriptions (I don't pay for access to images): Lachert, Lackhart.

[heiserca]

“Is there any point to which you would wish to draw my attention?”
“To the curious incident of the dog in the night-time.”
“The dog did nothing in the night-time.”
“That was the curious incident,” remarked Sherlock Holmes.
(“Silver Blaze”, in The Memoirs of Sherlock Holmes, by Sir Arthur Conan Doyle,1893)

I see a marriage of Robert Lockhart & Margaret Lockhart at Abbotshall, Fife, 1818; they had 10 children, including a daughter Helen!  But their Helen was b. 3 Feb 1836, twenty years too late to be my ancestor. 

Can’t find any Helen or Ellen Loc**art born 1816-19 anywhere in Fife.

James Clezie, husband of my Ellen/Helen, is shown in Toronto directories:
1844-46: Sarah St; 1846-48: 18 Richmond St W; 1848-49: James St; 1849-53: 137 Yonge St.

In May 1852 a child of theirs died in Toronto, burial record shows “Helen Orr Clezie” but was probably Eleanor.  Dec 1852 their next child was born at Cleveland, so they moved during that 7-month period.

Lockhart and other varieties are also listed in Toronto directories but names of children not shown.  Simply no clue as to where Ellen/Helen came from, just "Scotland".

[cosmac]

If Helen Orr was the actual name are there any Clezie Orr connections or Lockhart Orr connections you can find.

Debbie

[heiserca]

None.  I think the person who wrote "Helen Orr" meant "Eleanor" but didn't know how to spell it.  They had no formal schooling.

[JaneyCanuck]

We've crossed in the post so I'll add this first:

Helen Lochart, 1818, Abbotshall, Fife, parents Robert Lochart and Margaret Lockhart.
- that's from familysearch - presumably died, then, and they had another Helen in 1836.

-----------

I might also rethink the idea that Ellen (and family) were living in Toronto, and consider that James Crezie met her in Troy. Or possibly met in Toronto but her family all relocated to NY state before they married, or the family had relocated already when they met ...

In the 1850 US census there is a Robert Lockhart living in Troy Ward 7, Rensselaer county, NY, born in Canada 1834.

In Lansingburgh, Rensselaer county there are also a John (1820) and Ellen (1826, his wife), both born in Scotland, and their children Margaret (1848) and William (1850).

Unfortunately, while the wives' names match up nicely, they are Lockharts by marriage.

I might wonder whether both Robert 1834 and John 1820 were brothers of your Ellen, John born before the family left Scotland and Robert after. Unfortunately, of course, there is no shortage John Loc*rts born in Scotland c1820.

The US censuses are findable at familysearch also. What certainly looks to be that Robert (RH, Robert H) Lockhart, born 1834 in Canada, ends up in Tennessee in 1860 and New Orleans in 1900.

Also in 1850 familysearch shows a Jane Locklort (never underestimate the capacity to mistranscribe) in Troy Ward 2, born 1826 Scotland. Yes indeed, at Anc'y she is Jane Tocklart. I can't see the household, but there are no other Tocklarts in that census. I would have a look at her too.

Anc'y shows 346 people in Troy in 1850 born in Scotland. Having browsed them, I don't see any others who look like perverted Lockharts.

Ah, but as for the name in Troy pre-1840: the 1820 census has a John Lockart there, per familysearch.


When it comes to what one's ancestors got up to, particularly with their names, I always try to remember ... except now I forget: how many absurd things is one to believe before breakfast?

[heiserca]

This is new information.  Thank you!  I'll certainly try to pursue those leads in New York.  I had been told there were no Lockharts in or near Troy until roughly the Civil War era.  "Come, Watson.. The game is afoot!"

[JaneyCanuck]

Loving a puzzle.

That Jane Locklort/Tocklart - familysearch shows her in a Vail household from Germany (I'd actually doubt they are from Germany; the HOH's place of birth is blank, and the others dittos, Germany belonging to the previous household), with a Stokely couple from Pennsylvania, and one other young single woman, from Ireland. I would suspect they were both domestic servants.
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/MC1C-9YJ

Actually, and see, I am learning things, you can see the census image there. Once I adjust my javascript blocker ... it doesn't show an occupation or relationship for them, although they might be meant to be dittos to the Servant written after Mr. Stokeley's name. The Vails are the idle very rich.

Robert Lockhart 1834 is in the household of John Cloyde.
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/MC1Z-PMH
but I cannot for the life of me get it to show me the image:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-266-11861-24955-0?cc=1401638
John Cloyde was born 1787 in Scotland, his wife Margaret 1790 in Scotland. They have three Dow toddlers with them, born in Newfoundland and New York, and a Mary Dow aged 31 born in Scotland. There is also a John Boyd aged 23 born in Scotland.

I can't get the image no matter whose name in the household I try it from. The pages before and after, yes; that one, no. Maybe someone could see it at Anc'y?

John Lockhart 1820 Scotland is a ropemaker.
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/MC18-5YN

I'm even wondering whether Robert c1834 might be a child of Ellen's from before marriage ...

In 1900 he is single, a lodger, with an assortment of people, in a white collar / artsy neighbourhood in New Orleans, and is a sexton! Year of immigration to the US (i.e. from Canada) seems to be 1836 (63 yrs in US, still an alien).

edit - got the 1850 image for him by switching to IE. John Cloyde, 63, born Scotland, upholsterer - as are Robert Lockhart aged 16 and John Boyd aged 23. Cloyde is just an odd name, and doesn't really seem to be a name. It's what it looks like, and Margaret Cloyde aged 90 died in Illinois in 1879, which is a match for the wife in the household. A spelling change on crossing the water, I would say, as those are the only occurrences of the name at familysearch. Clyde, as pronounced, maybe.

But I do wonder whether someone might have misread ... Crezie? Too much of a stretch, I think. Although ... it sometimes comes as Clazie, for instance?

Playing with the 1860 (because no image is available free), on the next census page (although possibly not - RH on page 14 is in Third Ward Memphis, Wm on page 15 is in Second Ward Memphis, both Shelby), family 98 (RH Lockhart is in family 91), is Wm Lockhart, aged 30, born Scotland c1830. They gotta be related. William born in Scotland c1830, Robert H born in Canada c1834, both in Memphis in 1860, Robert is in Troy in 1850.