Author Topic: Toronto streets, about 1840  (Read 30685 times)

Offline JaneyCanuck

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Re: Toronto streets, about 1840
« Reply #126 on: Thursday 09 August 12 12:58 BST (UK) »
I know it can be difficult following someone else's reasoning on the monitor. That's why cosmac did the same searches for herself, and followed some of the people through to later censuses, to confirm the relationships among all these Lockharts. (For instance, the husband of Mary Lockhart Dow, George Dow -- I identified that marriage in Scotland and the baptism of their children in Newfoundland -- appears in a later census with the mother of Mary Lockhart Dow, Margaret Henderson Lockhart Cloyde.)

It's an intricate multi-dimensional web.

It might help for you to go through the whole thread carefully, disregarding all the irrelevancies like the Lockharts in Lanark County Ontario, and just make a chart of all the Lockhart children who are in Rensselaer County circa 1850 (plus William in Buffalo) and see how their paths intertwine up to then and after that.

Just put the Margaret Henderson + William Lockhart marriage at the top -- look it up at familysearch to see it there, to start.

Make a column for each person -- nothing is known about the father after the 1811 marriage so you could leave him out for now -- the mother and each child, and one for your Ellen at the end, and a row for each decade from 1810 to 1910. (The 1850-1859 row would cover the 1850 census and marriages/baptisms in that decade, for example.)

Enter the known facts for each person in the box for each decade under their name.
- where and when they were born, according to the censuses
- where they were in each census and with whom
- where and when and whom they married
- where and when their children were baptised and what their names were
- where their children were living and with whom in each census
- where and when they died, for those for whom that has been determined (and the death details, e.g. place of birth, parents' names)

All of the Lockharts - mother Margaret on the left and all her children in the columns to her right - will show overlaps throughout the chart. Your Ellen will be down the far side not apparently overlapping except for her presence in Rensselaer County around 1840 (when we don't have hard facts about where the Lockhart family in question was) - but with parallel dates and matching children's names.

(It's also a reasonable possibility that your Ellen was a cousin of all these Lockharts -- e.g. that her father was a brother of William Lockhart who married Margaret Henderson, the parents of the Lockharts in Rensselaer County (and later in Tennessee, Chicago and New Orleans) -- or that she was the widowed wife of another child of the family whose only family on this continent was her in-laws in Rensselaer County. Just to mention other possible hypotheses.)

I really think that would help to do that -- to chart it all out.

It would probably also be a good idea to take out a short-term or free trial membership at a site where you can consult the US censuses for all years and look up all the people in question yourself, once you have the chart showing where they are known, so far, to have been, and get all the details about where they all were and who was with each of them.

Kinesthetic learning -- there's no substitute for doing it one's self, for getting it to stick!
HILL, HOARE, BOND, SIBLY, Cornwall (Devon); DENNIS, PAGE, WHITBREAD, Essex; BARNARD, CASTLE, PONTON, Wiltshire; SANKEY, HORNE, YOUNG, Kent; COWDELL, Bermondsey; COOPER, SMITH, FALLOWELL, WILLEY, Notts; CAMPION, CARTER, CRADDOCK, KENNY, Northants; LITTLER, CORNER, Leicestershire; RUSHLAND, Lincolnshire; MORRISON, Ireland; COLLINS, ?; ... MONCK?

Offline heiserca

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Re: Toronto streets, about 1840
« Reply #127 on: Friday 10 August 12 03:57 BST (UK) »
Janey, not sure that anyone else can follow your line of thought.  Maybe you have extensive Lockhart information that the rest of us lack?  So many pages quoting yourself! - yet the picture remains as murky as ever.

There is still no proof that Ellen of Troy had any connection to the Lockharts at Lansingburgh.  Maybe?  Sure.  At a moment in time - 1840 - they lived in close proximity, had the same surname.  But proof of a connection... still waiting. 

The names of Ellen’s children do not follow the traditional Scottish pattern.  Four of those names also appeared in John Lockhart’s family (Mary, Jane, Margaret, William).  But they are common names!  My small tree has 96 Marys, 64 Janes, 92 Margarets, 156 Williams.  With a singular exception - “Helen Orr” - all of Ellen’s children might easily derive their names from their father’s side of the family.

Thank you for your contributions here.  They have been fascinating.  I’ll try to follow your suggestion for making a chart.  But I am missing all the information you have about the various Lockharts in Louisiana, Tennessee, Illinois, etc. and cannot justify the time and expense to accumulate it, purely “on spec” that they might be related.  No idea where they fit.  Maybe your posts will help some future researcher get over the hurdles.
Clezie (Clazie, Clezy, Clazy, Clazey, Claise, etc.), Lockhart, Heiser, Schwab, Tomon, Zarnowski, Megert, Iseli

Offline JaneyCanuck

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Re: Toronto streets, about 1840
« Reply #128 on: Friday 10 August 12 04:32 BST (UK) »
Why don't you tell the assembled breathless masses exactly what you want, and where to find it, and we'll just go fetch it for you ? ?

The information about Tennessee, Chicago, and New Orleans is all in this thread, assembled by me and cosmac mainly. All you actually need to do is read it. Of course, consulting the sources yourself, which are all identified, would probably be a really good idea.

You can't justify the time and expense to do that?

Well ... I guess if you can't, nobody else likely can.  ;D

Of course, everything that I posted, myself, is available to you free of charge at familysearch, just as it was to me ... Only cost me my time.
HILL, HOARE, BOND, SIBLY, Cornwall (Devon); DENNIS, PAGE, WHITBREAD, Essex; BARNARD, CASTLE, PONTON, Wiltshire; SANKEY, HORNE, YOUNG, Kent; COWDELL, Bermondsey; COOPER, SMITH, FALLOWELL, WILLEY, Notts; CAMPION, CARTER, CRADDOCK, KENNY, Northants; LITTLER, CORNER, Leicestershire; RUSHLAND, Lincolnshire; MORRISON, Ireland; COLLINS, ?; ... MONCK?

Offline heiserca

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Re: Toronto streets, about 1840
« Reply #129 on: Saturday 11 August 12 16:23 BST (UK) »
Save the sarcasm for someone who will appreciate it.

An online version of the 1841 census covers Berwickshire, Peeblesshire, Roxburghshire, Selkirkshire, Dumfrieshire, East Lothan and Midlothian - the southern counties.  Only 27 Lockharts in that entire lowland part of Scotland in 1841:
19 in Dumfriesshire (17 at Durisdeer, 2 at Hoddom)
6 in Roxburghshire (5 at Roberton, 1 at Kelso)
2 in Berwickshire (at Hutton, where the Clezie family lived before moving to Edinburgh)

The biggest concentration of Lockharts by far is at Durisdeer, a small village in Dumfriesshire.  Admittedly not a perfect test because my Lockharts had already left Scotland before 1841.  But the overwhelming concentration there suggests it is worth detailed investigation.

Two other Lockharts lived at Hutton, Berwickshire, very near the birthplace of James Kerr Clezie.  Their names were James, 55, and Margaret, 54 - the very names given to Ellen's first two children!  And the perfect age to be her parents.  Prime candidates for closer examination.




Clezie (Clazie, Clezy, Clazy, Clazey, Claise, etc.), Lockhart, Heiser, Schwab, Tomon, Zarnowski, Megert, Iseli


Offline heiserca

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Re: Toronto streets, about 1840
« Reply #130 on: Saturday 11 August 12 17:15 BST (UK) »
Correction:  James & Margaret were not the first two children of Ellen Lockhart, but her first son was indeed named James, and her first daughter was named Margaret.  Which hints at a connection to the Lockhart couple from Hutton, Berwickshire.

 
Clezie (Clazie, Clezy, Clazy, Clazey, Claise, etc.), Lockhart, Heiser, Schwab, Tomon, Zarnowski, Megert, Iseli

Offline cosmac

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Re: Toronto streets, about 1840
« Reply #131 on: Saturday 11 August 12 17:43 BST (UK) »
You can check the online tree at Ancestry for James Lockhart and Margaret Buchan who married 24 Nov 1806 in Berwickshire.  Only 2 children are listed on the tree.  Isabel b. 1807 and Hugh b. 1810.  These children are named for the parents of James - Hugh Lockhart and Isabel Gow.

The tree shows James living with son Hugh in Haggerstown, Northumberland, England on the 1861 British census.  The tree does not follow Isabel.

Debbie

Offline heiserca

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Re: Toronto streets, about 1840
« Reply #132 on: Sunday 12 August 12 01:07 BST (UK) »
Thank you, cosmac.  Surnames are a bonus!

Clezie (Clazie, Clezy, Clazy, Clazey, Claise, etc.), Lockhart, Heiser, Schwab, Tomon, Zarnowski, Megert, Iseli

Offline heiserca

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Re: Toronto streets, about 1840
« Reply #133 on: Friday 31 August 12 17:34 BST (UK) »
To summarize the previous 14 pages:

The origin of Ellen Lockhart - who married James Clezie on 11 June 1840 at Troy, New York, and died 27 Oct 1899 at Cleveland, Ohio - still remains unknown.

A large number of wild geese have been chased in conflicting directions, with no clear result.  We have theories about her origin, some more probable than others, but no clear evidence.  A few apparent matches can be definitely ruled out (they married a different person, or died a different place) while other Ellens / Helens just remain nebulous.  A mystery woman.











 
Clezie (Clazie, Clezy, Clazy, Clazey, Claise, etc.), Lockhart, Heiser, Schwab, Tomon, Zarnowski, Megert, Iseli

Offline JaneyCanuck

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Re: Toronto streets, about 1840
« Reply #134 on: Sunday 28 September 14 17:53 BST (UK) »
for info, now updated here:

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=595931

wherein heiserca entirely adopts the Lockhart-Cloyde hypothesis and the suggestion that Ellen was the daughter of William Lockhart and Margaret Henderson (later Margaret Cloyde) of Paisley.  :)
HILL, HOARE, BOND, SIBLY, Cornwall (Devon); DENNIS, PAGE, WHITBREAD, Essex; BARNARD, CASTLE, PONTON, Wiltshire; SANKEY, HORNE, YOUNG, Kent; COWDELL, Bermondsey; COOPER, SMITH, FALLOWELL, WILLEY, Notts; CAMPION, CARTER, CRADDOCK, KENNY, Northants; LITTLER, CORNER, Leicestershire; RUSHLAND, Lincolnshire; MORRISON, Ireland; COLLINS, ?; ... MONCK?