Help me sort this out pls!

[Washy]

Hi Everyone can you help me sort this please. Have

Marriage 1899 Harriet E TOWNSEND Thomas TOWNSEND  Lowton St. Luke's Wigan & Leigh

1879 TOWNSEND Harriet Elizabeth Lowton Wigan & Leigh URMSTON

Baptism: 14 Jan 1880 St Luke, Lowton, Lancashire, England
Harriet Elizabeth Townsend - [Child] of Alfred Townsend & Mary Ann
Born: 25 Dec 1879
Abode: Lowton
Occupation: Collier
Baptised by: R. Smith, Rec
 
Marriage 1876 TOWNSEND Alfred URMSTON Mary A Lowton St. Luke's Wigan & Leigh

1876 TOWNSEND Thomas Henry Lowton Wigan & Leigh URMSTON
1879 TOWNSEND Sarah Jane Lowton URMSTON  Death 1880 TOWNSEND Sarah Jane 0 Lowton 
1880 TOWNSEND Ada Louisa Lowton Wigan & Leigh URMSTON
1882 TOWNSEND Mary Ann Lowton Wigan & Leigh URMSTON

1881 census
Church Lane Lowton
Joseph TOWNSEND Head 42 1839 Northwood, Middlesex, England Ag Lab
Harriet TOWNSEND Wife 44 Cartsall, Middlesex, England Wife 
Henry TOWNSEND Son 21 Cartsall, Middlesex, England Coal Miner 
Julia TOWNSEND Female 16 Cartsall, Middlesex, England Cotton Reeler
Ada TOWNSEND 10 1871 Cartsall, Middlesex, England Scholar 
Mary TOWNSEND Daur In Law 25 1856 Lowton, Lancashire, England Household Duties 
Thomas TOWNSEND Grand Son 4 Lowton, Lancashire, England
John TOWNSEND Grand Son 3 Lowton, Lancashire, England 
Harriet TOWNSEND Gran Daur  1 Lowton, Lancashire, England

Can seem to find census with Alfred & Mary & son Thomas I think is living with grandparents 1901 &  has father as Joseph on his marriage.
Please help

[CatOne]

Can see Alfred in 1861 and 1871 but not after that, do you have him after 1871??  Do you have any of Mary A's other children's birth certs? just wondered if Alfred is named as the father, if he maybe deserted her??

Traced the families back and Harriet E seems to have married her dads cousin, is that what you've found?

Cat 

[pgr30]

Washy,

Mary Ann appears to be living with her brothers Samuel & Peter Urmston in 1891 (in Lowton) along with 4 children John, Harriet, Louisa and Joseph.  She is described as married but Alfred isn't there (or son Thomas).

In 1901 she is shown as head of the household at 5 Church Lane in Lowton with John, Ada Louisa and Joseph.  She is still described as married but again no sign of Alfred.  Thomas is, as you have described, with his grandparents.

This is the same address that is used by Thomas and Harriet Elizabeth at a later time so presumably the correct family.

In 1891 Thomas (son of Alfred and Mary Ann) is again with grandparents Joseph and Harriet.

I don't think therefore that you are going to find a census return with Thomas with either of his parents let alone both of them.

Alfred appears to be conspicuous by his absence on census nights.  Presumably he was down the pit, or otherwise engaged.


PGR30

[Washy]

Hi Thankyou for info
Thought I was going mad 

Looks like Grandparents Joseph & Harriet brought up 2 of children Thomas H & Mary A they even put him as father on their marriages.
 Cat was wondering if related somehow, only have 1881 census. don't have Alfred at all pls can I have the 1871 & 1861 please & how you worked out cousins  Have info on Thomas Townsend Harriet Elizabeth Townsend husband.
Also did Joseph put the children down as grandchildren?

[Washy]

PGR30 can I ask for the other detail of 1891 census have Mary & children info but not her brothers. Need age address occ born etc.

Thankyou Cat & PGR30 for helping me 

[pgr30]

Washy,

1891 census details as follows:-

address: Newton Road, Lowton (no house number shown)

Joseph Townsend- head - 50 - Collier labourer - born Middlesex
Harriet Townsend - wife - 53 - born Middlesex
Ada Mary Townsend - Daughter - 20 - born Middlesex
Thomas Townsend - Grandson - 14 - General labourer - born Lowton
Mary Ann Townsend - Granddaughter - 9 - at school - born Lowton

As you can see described the children as grand-children.

I am new at this so hope the information is satisfactory.

PGR30

[Radcliff]

1871 census
Marsh Green
Bradwall Cheshire,
RG10/3707

LODGING IN THE HOUSE OF Henry Boston

Joseph Townsend,aged 31 born Middlesex Northwood,married,hay cutter
Alfred Townsend,aged 11 born Eastgate Middlesex,also hay cutter

[Radcliff]

1871 census
Fields End
Eastcote Ruislip
Middlesex
RG10/1310

Harriet Townsend,wife aged 33 born Eastcote
Henry aged 10
Julia aged 5
Sarah aged 2
Ada aged 3 months
all children born Eastcote

[Washy]

Good Morning everyone, thankyou for information.
PGR30 thankyou didn't have all the info for them on 1891 census. So were put as grandchildren but obviously thought of them as parents to put their grandads name on marriages. Could I have Marys brothers info please Samuel & Peter.
Hi Radcliff thankyou for info, getting a little closer now. Talk abt "where's Wally" where's Alfred

Have Thomas Townsend who married Harriet Elizabeth Towsend family at Farm Cottage Ruislip on 1871 census but at Fields end on 1861 census. This family 1861 Fields End
Thomas Townsend 1814 47 Agricultural Lab Ruislip
Mary A Townsend 1818 43 Ruislip
John Townsend 1847 14 Ruislip
Alfred Townsend 1849 12 Ruislip
Sarah Townsend 1852 9 Ruislip
David Townsend 1859 2 Ruislip
Kate Townsend 1860 10 months

Thomas is the son of John aged 14. I'm thinking Thomas senior 47 on this census maybe Joseph's uncle, what do you think?
Do you think eastgate should be Eastcote for Alfred?