William Osborne 1799 Mulbarton or 1796 Keswick?

[shoeman]

Kesik, as we say in Norfolk is in walking distance of Lakenham.

[Duodecem]

Thanks Shoeman, it looks as if they didn't move at all, just baptised their children in different churches as none of them are far apart the villages seem to be part of Norwich from the map-is that right?.
Yorkslass your links have been extremely helpful.
I've repaired my ancestry tree and added the children of John and Mary. I even used your transcript link and found the baptism of their youngest child Elizabeth born 1802.
Your idea of starting with the burial is a good one I think I found Mary buried Lakenham 8th Feb 1833.
That would give a dob about 1765.
There is a birth of Mary Puncher to William Puncher and Mary Wright in Bedingham 13 May 1764 on Freereg. What do you think -it's about 12 miles from Lakenham/Keswick. I don't want to find the wrong person again!
I also found a burial for John Osborne in Lakenham 17 Sept 1848 aged 96!
I also found him living in St Stephens Norwich on the 1841 census with Thomas James and Elizabeth Osbourne. The age for Elizabeth is right (assuming she is the daughter not a wife of one of the sons, but the ages of Thomas and James are the wrong way round, James should be younger than Thomas. I know that the ages were rounded on the 1841 It's possible the census recorder confused the 2 sons. What do you think? He must have been amazingly healthy -though sadly, even if he's the right John Osborne his genes would be a bit diluted by now!

[Duodecem]

One other question -how do I send a link?, I've tried right clicking but it doesn't seem to work. It would be useful to send links to the things I've found.
I tried before when I was responding to a query and could only type in the web address.

[Yorkslass]

Hi Jan,

Your last question first - when I do links, I highlight the web address in the address bar at the top, by right clicking, then click "copy".  Then you can "paste" into whatever you want.

I saw the burials too, and when I saw John Osborne's date of death (and age!!) realised he should be on the 1841 census.  I don't see why it shouldn't be him ....but I'd disagree that the Elizabeth is his daughter - more likely the wife of Thomas.

The reason I say that is there was a burial in Lakenham, in 1820, of an 18 year old Elizabeth Osborn.

The Mary Puncher baptism you found could well be right - but at the moment I'd say it was a "definite maybe" 
Freereg, Ancestry and Family Search have indexed many parish records - but not all .....

And there's always the danger of mis-transcription, especially with a name like Puncher/Punchard - the "P" could even be mis-transcribed as a "D"

The other interesting thing is that son, Thomas was a publican - that might yield some more clues.

Yorkslass

[Duodecem]

Hi Yorklass thanks for the info re links-I haven't used the address bar before so that's why it's never worked.
I do think the 1841 might be our John Osborne and I checked to see if one of the sons married an Elizabeth. In 1815 Thomas Osborne living in the parish of St Simon&Jude Norwich married Elizabeth Stibbard otp in St Martin at Palace. By no means certain but possible.
Sad about Elizabeth Osborne I've just looked up the death, I would think she probably too young to be the witness at William's wedding in 1817, so maybe that was the wife of Thomas.
I agree that Mary Puncher of Bedingham is too long a shot, also the marriage record is definitely Punchard. If it were Keswick/norwich/Lakenham I'd be more confident.
I couldn't find the original of Mary's baptism but i did find several siblings and the records were consistently Puncher
So-where next do you think -is there any way of checking up Thomas the publican or find out more about the carter's business run by 90 year old John and his son? (Steptoe&son springs to mind!)
I thought I'd see if there's any on-line business records for Norwich in 1841.

[Yorkslass]

Hi Jan,

I saw that the marriage of Thomas Osborn and Elizabeth Stibbard was by licence.
That might show something - who knows ... but it's a long process, as they're mostly not indexed.

To be honest, I wouldn't worry too much about the different spellings of Puncher/Punchard - it happened all the time. 

I'm not aware of any "business records" as such - at least not online.  I wish there were!!

In the meantime, I've found the pub Thomas had in 1841. He had it between 1839 and 1845.
Interesting stuff, isn't it?

http://www.norfolkpubs.co.uk/norwich/nnorwich/nchnci.htm

Yorkslass

[Duodecem]

Genius-I don't know how you find these things! I trawled through Whites 1845 directory on Ancestry but none of them were important enough to feature. I should imagine the carters were the C19th version of a man with a van! What do you think Thomas did next ? I'll try the census I think.
The good news is that my newly acquired relative("2nd cousin I think) agrees that the 1841 and 96 year old death was indeed our John Osbourne.
She also says that his granddaughter Harriet Osbourne, later Jackson and finally Ewing , lived until she was at least 90. She was born in 1822 and is on the 1911 census living with her daughter Sarah Ann Jackson married name Bailey and her husband Robert.
Sadly i haven't found a death record, she doesn't seem to be on BMD unless she'd left Norfolk. But she did amazingly well- 4 children, of whom 2 died and widowed aged 32. She had an illegitimate child (my g.grandfather)18 months later.At 40 she was a washerwoman, at 50 a resident servant, she then remarried aged 52, widowed again at 67 and was still around aged 90! 
I wish I'd inherited her stamina! Jan

[Yorkslass]

I've used that "Norfolk Pubs" site before - I have an ancestor who was a publican in Great Yarmouth.

Yes, being a carter was no great shakes way back then.  I think all they needed was a horse and cart    But crikey, still working at 90 !!  You certainly have a long-lived family.

As for Thomas, he seems to have changed occupation in 1851- to a farm labourer.

Which brings me back to the marriage licence for Thomas Osborn and Elizabeth Stibbard.
I found the marriage bond (eventually!)  but it doesn't really help much.  This Thomas Osborn was a plumber and glazier, and the ages are 21 and upwards.  The other bondsman was a witness at Thomas's marriage.
It still could be the right one - it's a long time between 1815 and 1839, so who knows - it's worth keeping hold of in case it can be proved some time.

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-266-12377-89580-90?cc=1824690&wc=6893227

Yorkslass

[Duodecem]

£200! In 1815! Did they have to pay it or was it like bail-they forfeited it if they did not go through with the marriage? I won't begin to ask how you found it, I suspect you have supernatural powers -or loads of experience- thank you.
If Thomas was a plumber and glazier in '15 would he be a labourer in '51? It seems doubtful.
I haven't found him in 51 or 61 nor James -where did you see him? I've tried Ancestry and Freecen (for 61 it doesn't have 51)
I  think the long-lived gene is a bit diluted by now, no-one has reached 90 for a couple of generations, let alone carried on working as a carter.
The only possible Harriet Ewing death I've found of the right age is  in North Yorkshire -at 92! It was a bit of a journey, perhaps her grandfather's cart was still available! Or else she was buried under one of her other names.