needle in haystack - Jones in Rhuddlan / St Asaph

[Marmalady]

Family documents indicate that my 3xG Grandfather was John "The Marsh" Jones from Rhuddlan who had children Margaret, Thomas, Lizzie and John

In 1841 census:

New Inn, Rhuddlan

John Jones 35 Innkeeper  not born in county
Mary           35                 born in county
John             5                  born in county
plus a couple of servants

In 1851:

Marsh Inn Rhuddlan

John Jones 48 Innkeeper & Farmer  bn Henllan Denbighshire
Mary           57                                bn Flintshire Tremerchion
John            14                                bn Flintshire St Asaph
 plus servants & ag labs


cant find them in 1861 - think the census is missing for the area

By 1871, John has died (not yet tracked down exact date) but Mary is still at the Marsh inn age 75. Also in the household is a niece Mary A Pierce a widow bn in Newmarket Flint
 John jnr is married and living in his MIL's household High St Rhuddlan. He later becomes landlord of the Black Inn Rhuddlan

John & Mary's daughter Margaret moves to Liverpool and marries John Bulloch in 1831 (I have full details of her family forward from here)

I have not been able to trace Thomas & Lizzie

One of the witnesses at Margaret's wedding was a Catherine Jones - is this possibly Thomas's wife? or another previously unknown sibling? or just a coincidence?

Both Margaret (born c1809) and John jnr (born c1836-7) consistently give their birthplace as St Asaph rather than Rhuddlan


can anyone find bpts for any of the family?
 or the marriage of John & Mary?

Given the nearly 30 years between the births of Margaret & John, I am not even sure if Mary is Margaret's mother --she may well be a second wife -- in which case i also need the marriage & death of the first Mrs Jones!

Any help much appreciated

[wilcoxon]

Here`s a starter.
Wrexham and Denbigh Weekly Advertiser, and North Wales Chronicle Saturday, August 11 1855
DEATH . On the 1st inst in his 52 nd year, Mr John Jones, Marsh Inn, Rhuddlan.


This would be 1st August

[Marmalady]

That certainly seems like the right chap

BUT i have just realised a huge discrepancy in dates!!

If he died in 1855 aged 51 --that puts his birth around 1804 --so he cannot possible be Margaret's father!!

I wonder if this is her brother John instead?

[mosiefish]

He left a will which was written on 25th July, 1855 leaving everything to Mary - no children mentioned  It was proved on 3rd May, 1856 see:

http://cat.llgc.org.uk/cgi-bin/gw/chameleon?skin=profeb&lng=en

Type in 1856 to 1856 and press save and then choose the Diocese, then type in his name.  He is on the second page.

Mo

[wilcoxon]

Another  death
The Wrexham Advertiser, North Wales Register Saturday, October 16, 1875
October 13th in her 4th year, Lizzy youngest daughter of  Mr J Jones, Black Inn, Rhuddlan

[wilcoxon]

Here is the will,
John Jones : 1856. 
In St. Asaph Probate Records, 1521-1858 (WlAbNL)3650003 
Details Jones, John, Marsh Inn, St Asaph, Flint, Farmer/Innkeeper 
  John Jones : will, 1856.

http://hdl.handle.net/10107/802940

[Marmalady]

Thanks for deaths info and the links to the will

shame it doesnt give much information

By widening the search criteria, I have found the Administration of  John Jones Publican of the Ship, Rhuddlan granted to his wife Alice in 1825

I wonder if he is a better candidate to be the father of my Margaret?

Possibly the epithet of "The Marsh" should have been attached to Margaret's brother, not father, in the old family papers I have

[cherihyde]

Hi. I think I have a link to your family. Richard Jones was born in 1845 to Thomas Jones, born about 1799 and died 1856. Richard died at Black Inn in 1891 and his wife Catinka (Catherine) Caroline Julia Jones is listed as Hotel Keeper in 1891 at the Black Inn, Rhuddlan. I am waiting for Richard's birth record to give his mothers name.

John could very well be Thomas's brother.

[Marmalady]

Hiya

Sorry for the delay in replying but I had a major computer fail and for some reason my new computer does not like letting me onto Rootschat

Yes, we could well have a connection!

Mary, the wife of John Jones was still at the March inn in 1871, but when she died in 1879 her address was the Black Inn Rhuddlan. At the time the Black Inn was being run by her son John R Jones & his wife Harriet nee Morris. It had previously been run by Harriet's parents. John R dies sometime between 1881 & 1891 -- I guess your Richard took over the Black Inn after John R's death. John R & Richard would have been cousins.

Do you have Richard & Thomas on earlier censuses?
I would be very interested in whatever info you have on the family

In case I have difficulty accessing this thread again, please can you contact me via email?
LMH6Midland  at  aol dot com

(have broken the link to avoid the spambots finding it!)

thanks
Lyn