Robert Calder

[jennywren001]

I was in two minds Annie but I found a Joseph Calder aged 60 - died Dundee 1839 - Spirit Dealer - born Aboyne, Aberdeenshire so I thought perhaps a connection. Joseph had a daughter died 1838 in Dundee - born on the Island of Mauritius! There is a will (1848) for a William Calder (innkeeper) at SP but it's the other side of the country...
Jen

[screwlooose]

Ok, so I will post what I have. His death registration in 1893 has his age at abt 74. Fathers name Wm, (i assume that is William). Mothers name Ellen Harper, (No idea where that name came from). I havent found any family docs with that name on it.
I have that 1841 sencus in my tree as that was the closest I ever found to him.
There are 2 Robert Calders arrived in Victoria, one in 1853 and one in 1854. The one in 1853 arrived on the ship, 'Hurricane', but the age is 5 yrs out. (I dont mind 1 or 2 years, but 5 gets a bit too much). The one in 1854 arrived on the, 'Lightning', has no age.
Robert married Martha Smith in 1858 in Ballarat Victoria. Marriage cert says Martha was a widow. Maiden name Martha McIntosh. widowed 22 Dec 1857. Marriage cert says she was born in London. Parents I have are Angus McIntosh and Elizabeth Keeble
Children doesnt help
Helen Martha 1859
Elizabeth Mary 1861
Martha Ann 1864
Robert James 1866

[wivenhoe]

Can you please list all the information on the marriage certificate, 1858.

Can you please list all the information on the death certificate, 1893.

Every detail please......dates, ages,names, occupations, addresses, witnesses, informants....everything.

If you have comments to add, can you put them separately, after the list of details, so that it is clear what is on the certificate, and what is your comment.

[Wendy2305]

Ok, so I will post what I have. His death registration in 1893 has his age at abt 74. Fathers name Wm, (i assume that is William). Mothers name Ellen Harper, (No idea where that name came from). I havent found any family docs with that name on it.
I have that 1841 sencus in my tree as that was the closest I ever found to him.
There are 2 Robert Calders arrived in Victoria, one in 1853 and one in 1854. The one in 1853 arrived on the ship, 'Hurricane', but the age is 5 yrs out. (I dont mind 1 or 2 years, but 5 gets a bit too much). The one in 1854 arrived on the, 'Lightning', has no age.
Robert married Martha Smith in 1858 in Ballarat Victoria. Marriage cert says Martha was a widow. Maiden name Martha McIntosh. widowed 22 Dec 1857. Marriage cert says she was born in London. Parents I have are Angus McIntosh and Elizabeth Keeble
Children doesnt help
Helen Martha 1859
Elizabeth Mary 1861
Martha Ann 1864
Robert James 1866

The children do help as the scots had a naming pattern which possibly looks to be followed here but not strictly
Helen after Paternal grandmother
Elizabeth after maternal grandmother
Martha after her mother
Robert after his father

Which may back up Helen/Ellen as his mother pity they didn't have more sons

Have you considered Robert may have been illegitimate

This could be a long shot but what if Robert was illegitimate but took his fathers name of Calder which did happen regulary and he did come frome Angus rather than Ayrshire There is a marriage between a Helen Harper and William Young in Careston Angus in 1821 I can see no sign of a Robert with them or a birth of a Robert Harper/Calder

The reason I ask is my 2x great uncle married in Scotland and his wife was illegtitmate and gives the name of her father on her marriage she dies in NSW after her husband and the name of her father on the death is that of her step father The information is only as good as what the informant knows
On the death cert do they ask for fathers surname or is it only forename and then the presumption is the fathers surname is the same as the childs

[Rosinish]

I was in two minds Annie but I found a Joseph Calder aged 60 - died Dundee 1839 - Spirit Dealer - born Aboyne, Aberdeenshire so I thought perhaps a connection. Joseph had a daughter died 1838 in Dundee - born on the Island of Mauritius! There is a will (1848) for a William Calder (innkeeper) at SP but it's the other side of the country...
Jen

Jen,

Just a quick reply,

CALDER WILLIAM 62
16/07/1848
274/ 20 419 Barry

Calder William
15/3/1848
innkeeper at Maryhill, Barony parish near Glasgow
Glasgow Sheriff Court Inventories
SC36/48/34

I could believe the death may be correct but not the will given the difference in dates/places?

Annie

[MonicaL]

Hi 

I too saw the will & testament index for a William Calder, innkeeper in Maryhill Glasgow. There is an inventory for a Mrs William Calder, widow in the early 1850s, also Maryhill ref. Apologies, not at home, and just from memory.

Tried to find them and failed in 1841 and wife in 1851 

Monica

[MonicaL]

Just a quick reply,

CALDER WILLIAM 62
16/07/1848
274/ 20 419 Barry

Calder William
15/3/1848
innkeeper at Maryhill, Barony parish near Glasgow
Glasgow Sheriff Court Inventories
SC36/48/34

I could believe the death may be correct but not the will given the difference in dates/places?

Annie

Annie, I think the William in Barry may well be this one that Andy found some years ago:

Hi

The 1841 Scottish census unfortunately is limited in detail, it doesn't show relationships nor actual birthplaces. There is this family that looks interesting

Village of Carnoustie, Civil Parish Barry,Angus

William Calder 50 b Angus occupation Horn (sic)
Helan (sic) Calder 52 b Scotland Occ Horn (sic)
Robert Calder 19 b Scotland Linen H.L.W. (Hand loom weaver?)
Helan (sic) Calder 17 b Scotland Linen h.l.w.
Alexander Calder 15 b Scotland Linen H.L.W.

Born Scotland means they were born in Scotland but not the county of Angus
Carnoustie is about 10 miles from Dundee and it is not uncommon for people, when a long way from home, to give a nearby large town as birthplace.
In Scotland Helen and Ellen are interchangeable.

Andy

This is the original thread www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=628362.0

Monica

[Rosinish]

Thanks Monica,

Related posts always useful!

Wendy,

Your post seems very interesting and feasible!

An interesting thread indeed.

Annie

[Forfarian]

Related posts always useful!

But wouldn't it be nice to know it's there before one goes off and duplicates research already done.