Thomas GARNET & Mary PROCTOR Married 1884

[HillRolfeGarnett]

I have George & Louisa's Marriage Certificate NSW BDM Rego # 1889/005330.
no mention of Birthplace, nor parents names for either the of them - I contacted the United Church Archives (married as Presbyterian) and they advised that they have no records and I could contact the NSW state Archives ( yet to do this)
My George was a miner usual place of residence Toppers mountain. He Died 1914
We have nearly everything after their marriage, Details on Louisa's ancestors BUT nothing on his Birth - from a few of their children's birth certificates I calculate he was born between OCT 1860 and Jan 1861, he was the informant and stated he was born in Parramatta.

I am looking for details about his parents or siblings of George -
* My George Died in 1914 only Fathers Name was George but we doubt this as Informant was his oldest son named George and his father in-law was also a George - may be a mistake in time of grief.
* George FW Garnett born 1861 is not my George - Death certificates confirm this as George FW was not married with no children and died 1924)

NSW BDM SEARCH RESULTS
You searched marriages for the Groom's last name Garnet in the years 1800 to 1900
1 - 2 of 2 matches found 
Registration Number  Groom's Surname  Groom's Given Name(s)  Bride's Last Name
at Time of Marriage  Bride's Given Name(s)  District *
3046/1884  GARNET  THOMAS  PROCTOR  MARY A  WOOLLAHRA 
5330/1889  GARNET  GEORGE  HILL  LOUISA  INVERELL   

BDM has a Thomas Garnet (1 xT ) married within 5 years of my George - this is why I am investigating possible link.

Thank you for your time and interest
Regards Susan

[~MERLIN~]

BDM has a Thomas Garnet (1 xT ) married within 5 years of my George - this is why I am investigating possible link.

Are you thinking that this might be a brother to your George?

Is there a clergyman &/or witnesses names on the certificate?

[majm]

May I add to Merlin's question.... What denomination please for 1884?

Cheers JM

[majm]

Re 1889 mc.... Have you checked with the Sydney HQ Presbyterian Archives?

Cheers JM

[Neil Todd]

Hi Susan, I have been racking my brain and searching the BDM's without any success for your George. But then looked for possible marriages of Garnett's around your timeline, IE early to late 1850's. There was one marriage that stood out. That is a Henry + Caroline at Braidwood NSW 1856 Ref# 18/1856.

They had several children all born Sydney including one born Parramatta.

Caroline was CAROLINE GRYFFYTH WILLIAMS.
The children were. Edith b 1857 at Parramatta, Ellen b1858 at Sydney, Marguerite b 1860 Glebe and Maud b 1861 at Glebe.

These may not even be close to your George but possibly worth a look further.

Neil

[majm]

Hi there,

Sorry for the length of this post.  I strive to be brief, but frequently fail that goal. 

If those NSW GARNET mcs in the 1880s (actually covering 1856-1895) are either certs issued directly by NSW BDM or are official transcripts issued from NSW BDM records, then frequently there are lots of missing information on them, IF the NSW BDM has not yet reconciled their own records with the Church Registers.   The NSW BDM website includes the following announcement

"The task of reconciling the Church Records for marriages between 1856 and 1895 was never finalised. Some of the Registry's marriage records from these years still have missing information" http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/familyHistory/historyofRegistrysRec.htm 

The thread that Ros so kindly linked for me (I was not able to link it as at that moment I was not using my PC to post on RChat), is my contribution to RChatters collective knowledge regarding searching NSW marriage records in that era when the NSW BDM certificates are not showing that NSW BDM have reconciled their holdings with the Church Registers.

It is of course more likely that the 1884 cert has been reconciled by NSW BDM as it was a Sydney metropolitan marriage and the 1889 marriage was a non metropolitan one.  Of course, the denomination can be important too, for not all denominations have had their Church registers reconciled, and the funding for that reconcilation process 'dried up' during WWI.  Most of the then clerical staff (males) at the NSW BDM's office in Sydney, enlisted in the AIF, where their clerical skills were needed for obvious reasons, as shown in the magnificent records digitised by the National Archives of Australia for our WWI servicemen and service women.

The task of reconciling those pre 1895 NSW civil registrations of marriages has simply not been funded even in current decades.   The information is available, but is not held by the NSW BDM, if they have not reconciled their records with the extant registers held by many denominations in their various church archives. 

My general advice would be to obtain transcript copies of NSW BDM certificates for marriages in NSW 1856-1895 from official transcript agents (cheaper, comes as email attachment, same info, and will note the relevant Church Registers IF a reconciled mc) and then from that record, hunt up the location of the church register that has the elusive information.  The thread that Ros linked for me is simply giving clues as to how to obtain that elusive information that NSW BDM does not yet hold. 

Cheers,  JM

[majm]

At this link is an indexed transcription of historic records for a Thomas Garret born 14 April 1865 at Heidelberg, Vic to a Michael Garret and Ann Walsh. 
https://www.familysearch.org

I wonder if the online index for VIC birth registrations has this as Thomas DEVITT, son of Michael DEVITT and Anne WALSH, birth at Andersons Creek, Vic in 1865 (ref 6153)....

Vic BDMs are very informative and images are available to download immediately via plastic card use.
https://online.justice.vic.gov.au/bdm/index-search?action=getHistIdxSearchCriteria

And at this RChat thread http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,373754.0.html
I read that Vic Birth registrations include :
Date and place of birth;
name of child and whether present or not;
name of parents (including mother's maiden name);
occupation of parents;
ages and birthplace of parents;
date and place of marriage of parents;
previous children of their marriage noting living or deceased;
signature, description and address of the person who gave the information;
names of witnesses;
date and place of registation.


Cheers,  JM

[majm]

Hi,

I have again checked the Sands Alphabetical Directory for Sydney 1885 and 1890 and I have not found any entries for Thomas GARRET.  (Directories closed entries for publication annually in Oct of the prior year, so 1885 would include 1884 entries and 1890 would include 1889 entries.  You have 1884 and 1889 as the years of those marriages).

1885
There's :
NONE for Garret
NONE for Garnet
Tom Garnett, bricklayer, Isabella St, Wav(Waverley)
T W Garrett, solicitor, at Petersham (I think I recall you have eliminated him on an earlier thread)
Thomas Garrett, land agent, 454 Oxford St, Paddington.  (Paddington District was a separate NSW BDM district from its Woollahra District although both Paddington and Woollahra were and still are Eastern Suburbs of Greater Sydney)

1890
There’s
Tom GARNETT, a bricklayer, Wiley St, Waverley.
Thomas GARNETT, 191 Rose St, Darlington
Thomas GARRETT, “Essexville’ Parnell St, Burwood
And
Thomas GARRETT, the parliamentarian, Member of the Legislative Assembly of the NSW Parliament. I think he represented the electorate of Camden, 1860 -1871 and 1872-1891, and was at one time the NSW Minister for Lands.  http://adb.anu.edu.au/biography/garrett-thomas-3596  Three sons by his first wife, a son by his second wife, two sons by his third wife.  Probate packet can be obtained by online order at the NSWSRO Deceased Estates index.  DD 25 Nov 1891.  Duty 18 Dec 1891. http://srwww.records.nsw.gov.au/indexsearch/keyname.aspx 


I did notice in that particular directory (1890):
August GARRET, Prymont Bridge Road, GLEBE
George GARRET, draper, 235 Macquarie St, south.  (ie Sydney CBD)
Links to the City of Sydney Assessment books and maps are part of the fantastic RChat’s NSW Resources Board at this thread:  http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,369703.0.html

Susan,  may I please ask where you are located (NSW, or elsewhere in Australia, or further afield) ? Your RChat profile does not mention it.  Much of the info I am typing up for you is found in hardcopy records held by the NSW State Library, Macquarie Street, Sydney, and also at the National Library in Canberra, and in the various holdings for State Libraries in other capital cities, and in many other public libraries, and of course by many family history groups.  My hardcopy directories are becoming somewhat tattered, and I am becoming hesitant at continuing to turn through some of the pages. 


Cheers,  JM

[HillRolfeGarnett]

Thank everyone for your help.
Yes I am hoping that Thomas (Tom) and my GGFather George were brothers, they both married under Garnet (1xT) and their both changed their surname to Garnett (2xT) used on the birth registrations of their children in NSW BDM.

My George was married in a Presbyterian Church, I have contacted the United Church Arcives and have been told they have no record of George's marriage - I want know which Church Thomas(Tom) was married in until I get a copy of the Marriage cert. - Unfortunately this still may not be able to confirm a link - would love to make contact with Thomas and Mary's descendants they may have family history.

I may have to look at Henry & Caroline after Thomas ( as I am hoping Thomas is my link)

And for Thomas from Heidelberg may be this Thomas I guess the MC with give me an age to work with.

I would guess that Tom Garnett the Bricklayer is Thomas who I am looking for.

I live in Caboolture QLD - 1 hr north of Brisbane.
Thanks Again
Susan