Howes family at Vilner Farm, Thornbury

[howesglos]

Hello,

Could anyone help me to identify who was living at Vilner Farm, Thornbury in 1831?  I am trying to find more information about the Howes Family, who were living there in 1841.  In particular I am interested in knowing whether Thomas Howes (father of Joseph) was living there.

Thomas's wife Charlotte was living there with Joseph in 1841 as a widow, so I presume that Thomas died before 1841.  I've found a Thomas Howes buried in Alveston on 7/4/1831 aged 60.

Any pointers on what documents to look for would be most appreciated.  I've tried the 1831 census but got nowhere.

Thanks
Sue 

[horse000]

Hi

Elizabeth Thomas bap. 1811 St Helen, Alveston, d. 1835, Vilner Farm, Thornbury.

She married Joseph Howes in 1831, St Helen, Alveston. 2 daughters, Mary Ann & Charlotte.

This is the link > http://howesfamilies.com/getperson.php?personID=I59975&tree=Onename

It looks a bit complicated, but you probably have more background info.

Hope you can get something from this.

Regards
Geoff

[KGarrad]

The 1831 census is not generally available and, in any case, offers very little information to us FH'ers!
Just the name of the Head of the household, and how many people were living at that dwelling.

I am puzzled as to how you knew Charlotte was a widow on the 1841 census?
1841 simply shows Name, Male or Female, Age, Occupation, and whether born in county?

No relationship to head of house; no marital status.

So, at Vilner Farm we have:

Howes, Joseph  M  35  Farmer  Y
Howes, Charlotte  F  60  Y
Howes, Mary Ann  F  7  Y
Howes, Charlotte  F  5  Y

[howesglos]

Thanks for both responses.

I've previously joined the Howes one name group and have provided Paul Howes with information on my family as it appears that the Gloucestershire group were not really being researched - much more on the Norfolk group.  The site has been really helpful.

I've researched Charlotte and know that she was:

Christened in Brookthorpe,Glos in June 1776 (parish records)
Married in Norton, Glos on 12th Jan 1797 to Thomas Howes (parish records)
Her son John (my 2nd great grandfather) was christened on 5th November 1799 (parish records)
Her second son Joseph was christened on 11th April 1802 (parish records).

1841 census incorrectly gives her age as 60.

I have a copy of her death certificate which shows place of death as Vilner Farm, and that she was aged 66 and the widow of Thomas Howse (yet another variant of the name).

I've got a potential lead to a burial for Thomas Howes in St Helens in Alveston on 7th April 1831 and would like to check out whether this is "my" Thomas, which seems likely.  So I thought that by finding out who was living in Vilner Farm in 1831 I might be able to substantiate this.  Joseph was still farming at Vilner Farm in 1851.

So any further information on how to progress this would be really useful.

Best wishes
Sue

[KGarrad]

1841 census incorrectly gives her age as 60.

Ages on the 1841 census were rounded down to a multiple of 5 years!
So, an age of 60 declared on the census could mean that the person was any age between 60 and 64!

And, in any case, the enumerator just wrote down what he was told by the informant!

[howesglos]

Thanks for the information about the rounding down of ages in the 1841 census - I didn't know that!

Any suggestions for how I can find out if Thomas was in Alveston pre 1841?

Best wishes
Sue

[horse000]

Hi

A popular BI confirms your details concerning Thomas' burial in 1831, Alveston, St Helen.

Also...
Source, SGBI:
7 Apr 1831 Thomas Howes aged 60y. Abode, Alveston. Parish, Alveston, bur.

Regards
Geoff

[howesglos]

Thanks for this Geoff.

Sorry but I don't know what BI or SGBI means, so could you enlighten me?

The information that you have given me confirms my research, but I'm not sure how to make the connection between the information and "my" Thomas without having some sort of proof that he was in Alveston in 1831, although it seems to me to be most likely as the rest of the family were there in 1841.

Being agricultural labourers they did move around so much!  However, I'm lucky in that they only seem to have moved around Thornbury and along the A38 between Gloucester and Alveston.

Best wishes
Sue

[KGarrad]

BI = Burial Index
SGBI = South Gloucestershire Burial Index

As the 1831 census is:
1) largely destroyed and no longer existent
2) Only contains the name of the head of the household, plus a count of people in the house

You are never going to "prove" if he was living in the farm in 1831.

Pre 1841 you have to rely on Parish Registers (i.e. baptisms, marriages and burials) or other local documentary proof.
It helps if your ancestor was wealthy or bad! (court records).

You could try Gloucestershire Archives? http://www.gloucestershire.gov.uk/archives/article/107703/Archives-Homepage - search the online catalogue.
Or Bristol & Avon Family History Society. The SGBI is available there: http://www.bafhs.org.uk/burial-data/burial-index