Thomas CARROLL missing from census

[Fennawright]

I've been trying to find another Thomas Carroll in 1871 born in Corfu or Greece
or with a wife Jane but no luck so far.

Getting Vernon John Carroll's birth certificate is a good idea to check mother's maiden name.

I reckon the orignal couple in 1871 had Thomas born Portsmouth and Jane and her father born Fareham, Hampshire.

I don't know when they died.

Fennawright

[groom]

This is a strange one, but the fact that there are so many discrepancies does make me think it is wrong:

1. Place of birth of Thomas and Jane in 1871, which you know is the correct family because of the niece. The other Thomas and   
    Jane are fairly consistent as being born Corfu and West Bromwich and they stay around that area.

2. Mary's marriage certificate (which you know is correct) gives her father as Thomas Carroll a grocer, not John Carroll a soldier

3. Ages

The problem with finding Thomas born Corfu in 1871 is that he probably wasn't married and could be anywhere, even abroad if he was still with his family. We also need to find your family after 1871 dont we, but if he was a sailor maybe he was abroad and Jane is on her own somewhere.

[groom]

In 1881 John Biggs, Jane's father is still in Hampshire

John Biggs aged 64  (knocked a bit off his age)
born Titchfield Hampshire
Fareham Union Workhouse
Widower
Pauper, formerly a labourer
Blind

[groom]

Oh look what I've found, could this be why we cant find your Thomas and Jane after 1871?

Deaths

Thomas Carroll
March quarter 1873
aged 31
Alverstoke Hampshire
2b 316

Alverstoke is where they were living in 1871.

Then

Marriage

Jane Carroll
June quarter 1889
Alverstoke 2b 953

to either Henry McCloud or George Wallace. That certificate would tell you if she was a widow with the maiden name of Biggs.

[Fennawright]

Poor John Biggs.

If those are Thomas and Jane and she married again in 1889, then she should be a widow on the 1881 somewhere.

Age on death for Thomas is a bit out. He was 32 in 1871 so should be 34 in 1873.

Fennawright

[groom]

Jane Carroll married Henry McCloud  but I'm not sure she is yours unless she knocked quite a few years off her age because Henry was so much younger than her.  If she is the correct one, the 2 Carroll children are obviously not Thomas's children.

I wouldn't worry too much about the age difference in the death certificate as ages were often not exact.

1891 RG12; Piece: 866; Folio: 102; Page: 7


Henry McCloud   29   Bricklayers Lab     Devon Port Hampshire
Jane McCloud   32                               Gosport Hampshire
Harry Carrell   5                                  Lambeth London
Mary Carrell   3                                 Gosport Hants
Louisa McCloud 6 months                   Portsmouth
Mary A Robins   69   lodger                  Portsmouth


However, this family are also in the 1901 census with Jane's age given as 43 and with 5 more children, the youngest Kate aged 6 months. Therefore I dont think this is your Jane as she would have actually been 55 by then and probably wouldn't still be producing a child every 2 years. The only way to prove/disprove it is to get the certificate, unless anyone has access to the Parish records.

Found this site, but can't see them  http://www.knightroots.co.uk/parishes.htm    Alverstoke, comes under Gosport.

 

[Fennawright]

That's clever to find that Jane of the 1889 marriage married to Henry McCloud.

I agree that her age and having later children makes her unlikely to be the right Jane.

Thanks
Fennawright

[Fennawright]

I've been going to sleep at night counting Thomas Carrols!

I've found a grocer called Thomas Carrol age 40 in 1861.
His wife called Joane (or possibly Irene?) age 38.
Both born Ireland.

The occupation and their ages mean they could be parents of Thomas and Mary.

BUT they were in Bristol at 1 Broadmead. (RG9 1720 f16 p1)

My head is spinning now and I would appreciate people's thoughts on this

Fennawright

[groom]

Hi

I wonder if this is the same Thomas Carroll in 1871

Thomas Carroll  widower   52    labourer      Ireland
John Carroll       son           14                       Gloucestershire
Tom Carroll        son             4                       Gloucestershire

RG 10/2556/16/24
New Street Bristol

If it is him, he cant be yours as according to Mary he had died by the time she married in 1861. Also there is another son called Tom, unless this is a mistake and it is a grandson ie your Thomas's son.