Thomas CARROLL missing from census

[groom]

The niece with them had a mother Mary Carroll who was 21 when she married in Nov 1861.  Mary's father given as Thomas Carroll deceased.

It does look promising, but needs careful checking.   From the 1841 census, Mary was born 1836 and her father was John. This doesn't fit with what your Mary says on her marriage certificate when she gives her age as 21 ie born 1840 and father as Thomas.  You also say that your Thomas was born in Portsmouth, apart from the 1871 census do you have any other proof of this?

 

[Fennawright]

I see what you mean.

The 1871 census was the only census where I found Thomas, so Portsmouth was the only birthplace I had for him.

The only birthplace I had for Mary was Winchester given on the 1861 census
but she was a servant age 21 on that and so no clue to others in her family from that.

Mary's marriage certificate gives her father as Thomas Carroll, green grocer.
One of the witnesses was  a Catherine Carroll., and it occurs to me that she is still missing. I have no idea what relative or age she was or where she was born.

The 1891 Carrolls found by Ambly fit well with the 1841 ones found by you.
and fits with Thomas birthplace being actually Corfu.

The ages for Thomas and Jane in 1891 (51 and 42) are slightly out with the 1871 Thomas and Jane (32 and 25) but it wouldn't be the first time a lady lost a few years as she got older.  Birthplaces again a problem!

I suppose it moght help if I could find the marriage for 1871 Thomas Carroll and Jane Biggs/Briggs/Buggs to see what he reckoned his father was called but I've not had any luck with that so far.

Any suggestions welcome!

Fennawright

[AMBLY]

1901: 249 Halesowen Road Rowley Regis, Staffordshire
RG13 / Piece: 2732 / Folio: 86 / Page: 5
Head: Sarah CAVE 48, wid, b Old Hill, Staffs
Mother: Sarah POWELL 80, wid, b Old Hill, Staffs
Grandson: Thomas JOHNSON 4, b Old Hill, Staffs
Boarder: Thomas CARROLE 61, wid, b Island of Corfue, Greece FS


Cheers
AMBLY

[groom]

Mary's marriage certificate gives her father as Thomas Carroll, green grocer.

Are you 100% certain that this is the correct certificate? If so, the family we have been following can't be the right one as that Mary and Thomas's father was John who was a soldier.

[Fennawright]

Yes it is the right marriage certificate.

Mary Carroll married Joseph McCormick in 1861 and daughter Catherine was born 29 April 1864 in Landport. Birth certificate gives the names of Mary and Joseph as her parents.
Then Catherine McCormick is with Thomas Carroll as his niece in 1871.

I wonder if 1841 Dorothy was married more than once?

Or as relationships are not given in 1841 it's possible Mary and Thomas are niece and nephew?

Fennawright

[AMBLY]

An auction I think (back in 2006), Medals of John CARROLL:

Dehttp://www.dnw.co.uk/medals/auctionarchive/searchcataloguearchive/itemdetail.lasso?itemid=54716scription
"Pair: Serjeant J. Carroll, 53rd Foot
Sutlej 1845-46, for Sobraon 1846 (Serjt. John Carroll, 53rd Foot); Army L.S. & G.C., V.R., 1st issue, large reverse letters (John Carroll, Sergt., 53rd Regt), naming engraved in large serifed capitals, with steel claw and straight bar suspension, some contact marks, minor edge bruising, nearly very fine and better ........"

Cheers
AMBLY

[Fennawright]

Thanks Ambly

and it looks like another member of the family's medals were sold too.

It's just occurred to me that if this is not the right family, then the Thomas Carroll born in Corfu should be on the 1871 census somewhere as well.

Can anyone spot him?

Fennawright

[groom]

Hi

I'm still not convinced that these are all the same family.

If you are sure that the 1871 family are yours then that doesn't fit with the 1881 and later censuses.

In 1871 the places of birth for Thomas is Portsmouth and for Jane and her father also Hampshire, something ----ham. However in the other censuses Thomas is given as being born on Corfu and Jane as being born in West Bromwich. I have a feeling that it is just a coincidence that there are two Thomas Carrolls married to a Jane.

I think you might have to get the birth certificate of Vernon John Carroll, as that will give his mother's maiden name. If it is not Biggs that will eliminate that family. It does seem to me as if that family stayed around the West Bromwich area

Vernon John Carroll
June quarter 1878
West Bromwich
6b 871

[groom]

Out of interest, do you know when your Thomas and Jane died?

Vernon John Carroll has a war record from WW1. He was a shoemaker and served in the Militia before joining the army. He states on one form that he has no relatives and gives a friend as next of kin. This is then crossed out as in 1910 he marries Florence Taylor and they have a daughter Gladys Irene. He served in South Africa, Ceylon, East Indies and France.