John Bell

[dalenya]

Trying to trace a John Bell, shown on 1901 census as living in West Hartlepool, Co.Durham. He is shown as being born in Scotland c1873 and being a ship plater. Any ideas as to where I could find out what town he was born in?

[MonicaL]

Hi dalenya

Did John Bell marry in England? Have you viewed his marriage cert to at least confirm his father's name to let you work back to his family in Scotland with more confidence?

If you search on IGI here www.familysearch.org/Eng/Search/frameset_search.asp?PAGE=igi/search_IGI.asp&clear_form=true, you can see just how many John Bells were born around 1873 with a few years either side...

Monica 

[dalenya]

Hi Monica
Many thanks for your reply.
Yes he did get married in England. I also think I've found his death in West Hartlepool, Co.Durham and have emailed the registry office there to see if they will tell me a town of birth. There are loads of John Bell's born circa 1873 in Scotland.

[MonicaL]

There are too many John Bells for you to guess this one (a really common combination of surnames  ). You will need I think his marriage cert (did he marry an Edith?) to at least begin to seach for him in Scotland as this will include his father's name and occupation.

I don't think death certs in England included date and place of birth on death certificates until much later into the 20th C. (I have mid 1969 in my head, but sure this can be confirmed).

The other places to double-check for his birth place would be the 1911 census and also, if you are lucky, any WW1 service papers may also show this.

Monica 

Added: See www.direct.gov.uk/prod_consum_dg/groups/dg_digitalassets/@dg/@en/documents/digitalasset/dg_176222.pdf The changes seem to have come into effect from April 1969, still not sure regarding date/place of birth from this.

[MonicaL]

A little bit of luck always helps....

Found online the marrige cert for John Bell and Edith Mary Palmer on 19 april 1897 in Orsett, Essex:

John Bell, 24, plater, bachelor, son of a Robert Bell, also a plater
Edith Mary Palmer, 23, spinster, daughter of Frederick Palmer (can't read clearly occupation).

Witnesses are both Palmers, Frederick and Alice.

This all fits well with the family's 1901 census entry that you have in West Hartlepool:

John Bell 28, plater b. Scotland
Edith Bell 27 b. Orsett, Essex
Frederick Bell 3
John Bell 2
James Bell 2 Months

Monica 

[MonicaL]

Was wondering, given there is no sign of John with a father Robert, a plater, showing in 1881/1891 Scotland, whether the family had moved to England after John's birth, and I think they did. From 1881 (again, a little bit further luck that it doesn't just say Scotland for John's birth or his family's birth places  ):

Robert Bell 32, Plater (Ship) - can't make out Robert's birth place as yet, showing as Heirshire, Scotland
Margaret Bell 28 b. Belfast, Ireland
John Bell 9 b. Patrick, Scotland
Minnie Bell 8 b. Patrick, Scotland
Robert Bell 4 b. Patrick, Scotland
Esther Bell 2 b. West Hartlepool

Address: 21 Dover Street, Hartlepool

From this entry, I think parents are Robert Bell and Margaret BENSON. Two birth entries show for children, one of them John on IGI:

John Bell b. 14 May 1872 Govan, Lanarkshire
Samina (Minnie?) Bell b. 26 August 1873 Govan, Lanarkshire

Can't easily see parents' marriage so far, but John's birth cert above from www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk would let you confirm family details further. Births cert in Scotland include date and place of parents' marriage (from early 1860s) to help you work back. The cert should also have the right occupation etc. for father Robert.

[MonicaL]

Struggling with birth place for father Robert Bell, so adding here to see what people think:

[dalenya]

Hi Monica
I can't believe that you've gone to so much trouble for me. Thank you doesn't seem to cover it.
On 1911 census Edith is shown as a widow and I've found a death for a John Bell in West Hartlepool. I've emailed the registry office to see if John was married to an Edith.
Where online did you find the marriage cert for John and Edith/  I wasn't aware that such things were available.. This just goes to show how valuable a website like this is.
Once again, many thanks.

[MonicaL]

I saw that death too in early 1911 and wondered whether it was the death you mentioned you had found. Looks likely given the ages of John and Edith's children. Maybe the B for the middle name connects to mother Margaret's Benson side?

I'll send you a PM regarding the marriage cert....

Monica