Looking for JOHN BURT Dunfermline abt 1654

[Gensnr]

I have been able to locate my paternal line back to John Burt, born abt 1654 in Dunfermline. I have come to a dead stop and can find no further details about him. I know he married Agnes/Annis Whyte/White 23 June 1682. Their son William is my ancestor. I have all the details of the family, including Agnes' line, down to the present day, but would like to know any details about John.
Any help would be greatly appreciated. 
Cheers Gensnr

[Henry7]

Hi Gensnr!

There were a lot of Burts working in the coal mines within 2 miles west of Dunfermline in the 1690s and later.

In 1696 the list of coal hewers includes two John Burts (the younger married to Christian Steinson, who was a coal-bearer) and Andrew Burt.  The coal-bearers (women & children) include Anes Whyt, two William Burts, Andrew, Patrick, Janet and Isobell Burt.

Maybe the elder John Burt and Anes Whyt were your ancestors? In 1705 there's an Annas Whyte and in 1731 an Annise Burt - they're probably all the same person.

I have notes about these coal mines from 1696 to 1742, with several Burts throughout.  Of course, these Scottish miners and their families were the "property" of the mine owner, slaves in all but name, until the Emancipation Act of 1799.

Hope this helps!

Harry.

[Gensnr]

Hi there and thank you so much for your help. I certainly seem to be on the right track but wonder why I can't find any info on John (1654) and his forebears. Could they have come from somewhere else?
I was interested to read about them being "owned" by the mine owner. I googled some info and found it interesting and will print off some of the details later to add to my family file. What hard lives they must have lived, and we really don't know how lucky we are to be living in the present day. I also noticed lots of familiar names in some of the info. Another ancestor on a different side of the family is listed in a census as being 11 years old and a "miner". It seems his father died and as eldest he had to take his place as breadwinner.
Thanks once again.
Cheers Gensnr 

[Henry7]

Hi Gensnr -

Looking again at my old notes, it seems "Annas Whyte" had died in 1705-1706, so "Annise Burt" who appears twice in 1731-2 as a bearer (and, in these lists of workpeople, with an unusual first name) may well have been the daughter of John Burt and Annas Whyte.

In the earliest lists I have (1696) there are no other Whytes, so perhaps Annas came from outside the mining community.  But there were a lot of Burts, so they may well have been on the same Pitfirrane estate, working in the mines, since the "Act anent [concerning] Coalliers and Salters" was passed by the Scottish Parliament on 9th July 1606, if not before.   

This Act - which was extended and amplified in 1641 and 1661 - made it impossible for colliers to leave their place of work.  Their children were also bound, by the owner giving the parents "arles" - a small sum of money - at the child's christening, or when he or she started work.  This was called an "entrie dollar" in these Dunfermline records.

This was all abolished (at last!) by the Act of 1799.  Not, I suspect, because the mine-owners had become kind-hearted, but because of the urgent need for much more coal, for the new steam engines in the factories.  So they needed many more workers, and it wouldn't be easy to coax outside people into virtual slavery.  

Yes, happy days indeed!   

[Gensnr]

Hi again Henry 7. Thanks for the further info. I have some info on Agnes/Annas if you would like to add it to your notes in case you can help someone else doing the same search.
The children I have for John and Agnes are: William (1683 - my ancestor), Isabel (1685), Andrew (1687), Bessie (1690), Jean (1694), Edward (1696). There may, of course be others but this is all I have. If Annas/Agnes died in 1705/06 perhaps John married again and had more children?
I have the parents of Agnes as James White/Whyte and Grissell Anderson.
James (b abt 1618- 1624 Dunfermline, son of Thomas Whyte and Isobel Kellok, no further info on them).
Married 1646 Grissell (Grizzell) Anderson (b 1629 Dunfermline, daughter of John Anderson and Helen Kinghorne).
John Anderson (b 1587 Dunfermline, son of John Anderson and Margaret Aedison.)
Married 1628 Helen Kinghorne (b abt 1591 Dunfermline, no further info on Helen.)
John Anderson (b abt 1562 Dunfermline) married 1586 Margaret Aedison (b abt 1564 Dunfermline).
This is as far as I can get and I realise that although I cannot prove this info 100% the time-line does work out as far down the track as me!! (born 1946). Another "Chatter" helped me with my English side last year and told me that It is "more likely than not" that info gathered is correct when the dates fit together.
Having typed this all out I suppose you already have all this!!
Just one more query that you may be able to help me with. Do the Burts fit into any clan at all?
Cheers once again  Gensnr

[Henry7]

Hi Gensnr!

My notes on the Pitfirrane (etc) estates and their workers only start at 1696, so I don't know anything about people before that date.  There aren't any Kinghornes listed, but quite a few Andersons - maybe related, maybe not - it's a fairly common name.

Among the miners I have Charles Anderson in 1696, 1706/10/12, Charles (younger) in 1712, William and Adam in 1724, Charles and David in 1729, David, Charles, William and Adam in 1731.

In 1732 Adam, William, Charles, David and Robert are listed, but Adam Anderson died in Oct 1732. 

William "& his wife & bairn" ran away, but were recaptured and brought back in Jan 1733.  William again ran away, but was brought back "when trying to go to H.M. Plantations" in 1733.

The last mention of any coalminer Andersons is John, in 1734, but Adam is shown as an "oversman" in 1743, and William and Robert Anderson are noted as blacksmiths in Crossford village in 1742: maybe they were the same as the earlier miners with these names, maybe not.

As to whether the Burts belonged to a "clan" - I don't think they'd have recognised such a thing, living as they did in lowland Scotland, not the Highlands.  Maybe the Burt family has been awarded an alleged "clan tartan" but, if so, that will simply be the product of someone's imagination, going back, like so much of this clan tartan nonsense, to the mid-19th century - at the very earliest. 

Harry.    

[Gensnr]

Hi Harry, thanks once again for all your info, and thanks for taking the time to help me.  It seems I am done with the Burt line, but having traced back to 1654 is great. Trust me to come from a line with names that are quite common! I have also struck the "common theme" in my Bedford and Kent  English ancestors. So much for my hoping we had a trace of royalty somehwere!
Just one last question that I am sure you will be able to say either "yes" or "no". I see that there are several Grissells or Grizzells along the way and they suddenly disappear and Isobel or Isabel appears.
Did the first names morph into the latter at some stage?
Cheers Gensnr

[Gensnr]

Hi again Harry, this time I have another puzzle which you may be able to help me with. However if you can't I fully understand.
George Burt b abt 1791 (ancestor of the John Burt 1654) married a Janet Ewan/Ewings in 1807 in Dunfermline. Janet died in 1863 and on a copy of her death info  her parents are listed as Andrew Ewings and Christian Leitch.
On looking for Andrew I have struck another road block. On the IGI I find and Andrew Ewing b abt 1760 at Allola Clackmann who married a Christian Leetch about 1785 in Dunfermline.
I also have found an Andrew Ewan/Ewings born about 1760 at Crossgates Fife, who also married in Dunfermline abt 1785 a Christian Leitch b abt 1764 at Crossroads. 
As everyone related to me seems to have been born in and around Dunfermline I assume this latter Andrew is the right person.
To me it seems odd that two people with the same names and dates are listed in different counties, or is it that the names were quite common and just a coincidence
I am very grateful for all the help you have given me in untangling my rather large family tree.
Cheers Gensnr

[Henry7]

Hi Gensnr -

No, I'm stumped by this one.  Alloa in the tiny county of Clackmannan is only 13 miles west of Dunfermline but why Andrew Leitch should also be given as being born in Crossgates, 3 miles east of Dunfermline, I cannot think.

There's a "Crossroads" in Fife, about 20 miles east from Dunfermline, in Wemyss parish and now within the town of Methil, but I'd guess your Crossroads might be a misreading of Crossgates, or even Crossford (a mile & a half west of Dunfermline).  It's a tricky one.

Best I can do!

Harry.