Henry Johnson Needham

[lyraea]

I am hoping someone can help with some ideas around the following although it is a big ask. 

I have a Henry Johnson Needham who was baptised in 7 Jan 1874 and his birth date shows as 4 Jun 1866.  Several other siblings were baptised at the same time.   These baptisms were done within a month of the family leaving England for New Zealand.   I know that some of the other siblings had been baptised previously (around their births) so not sure why they were redone however I can't find a previous baptism for Henry.   The Parish is showing as Chelsea St, Jude and the Borough as Kensington and Chelsea - address is 2 George Place although they were probably renting or staying with someone at the time.

The thing is that the baptismal record shows his parents as Robert Richard and Henrietta Needham and I am pretty sure that she wasn't his mother.

Robert Richard married Henrietta Harman in 1868 and according to the records Henry was born in 1866 which wouldn't necessarily mean anything except that Robert R is showing as a widower on the marriage certificate to Henrietta.

It is possible that they had Henry baptised with them as parents to make it easier when they were emigrating - I really don't know for sure.   I have requested a couple of birth certs from the UK GRO covering  1865 - 1870 but they have not been able to find anything for him during that time.

I have checked his death record here in NZ and it doesn't show parents or a wife however it does say 79yrs old which does match with 1866 although it may not be correct. I haven't found a marriage record for him so he may not have married.

His father was married before but I cannot find a marriage under Robert Richard and if he just used Robert Needham on the marriage cert then there are many of them.  I have searched for a marriage from about 1851 to 1868 in Middlesex and then have checked all the women in those marriages to see if any died in the 1866-68 timeframe but so luck.  For Robert R I have 1836 as his brith date (from family) but can't find him in the Parish records or BDM after Sep 1837.  There are lots of Roberts but no Robert Richards - well not when I last looked anyway.

He shows in his death record and the NZ electoral rolls as Robert Richard Needham so presume that should be on his birth record although it doesn't always follow that it would.

So this long story above brings me to what I need - bascially I am trying to find the first wife of Robert Richard who is most probably also the mother of Henry Johnson.  If anyone can help in the meantime I would be grateful.

Hopefully it all makes sense and if anyones wants more information I am happy to if I have it.

Thanks
lyraea

[avm228]

The family appears in the 1871 census showing Henry as aged 4, born Bow: RG10/506/22/40.

Have you ruled out this birth? Henry might have been Henrietta's before the marriage, rather than Robert's.

Birth, Sep qtr 1866

Henry J Harman

Bethnal Green 1c 231

[Isobelruss]

Robert Needham married Henrietta Harman so how do you know hes Robert Richard

[avm228]

Robert Needham married Henrietta Harman so how do you know hes Robert Richard

He's Robert Richard, a butcher, when four of the children are baptised together in 1874.

He's plain Robert, a costermonger, when two children are prviately baptised in August 1873 and September 1873 respectively.

All in the parish of St Jude, Chelsea; parental abode is 2 George Place both in 1873 and 1874.

[lyraea]

Thanks for the replies

Yes he is definitely Robert Richard.   It seems he used Richard sometimes (his death and NZ Electoral Rolls to name a couple) and not others (his marriage).   He also had a son Robert Richard as well who died in infancy.

To avm22 - Re Heny J Harman - to be honest it never entered my head that he could be Henrietta's son.  I had always assumed he was from Robert's first mariage.  This is why it is good to get input from other people.   I will certainly order this birth cert and see what comes back .   If he does turn out to belong to Henrietta I will still be left with Robert's first marriage.  I was hoping to kill two birds with one stone however finding either will be a big step forward.

It will be several months before the cert arrives but I do appreciate your help whatever the outcome.

Thanks
lyraea

[lyraea]

To avm228

Just to say thank you for bringing the fact that Henry might be Henrietta's son to my attention.   I was so focused on the fact that Robert was a widower I didn't seriously consider that.   I sent away for Henry J Harman's birth certificate and got back the proof that that is exactly who he is.   He was born to Henrietta - interestingly there appears to be a father's name crossed out but looks like '..... Robert Wildman.   Can't read the first name and there appears to be a 14 in there for some reason or not but the other two names appear to be very clear.

Anyway - thanks again.

[avm228]

To avm228

Just to say thank you for bringing the fact that Henry might be Henrietta's son to my attention.   I was so focused on the fact that Robert was a widower I didn't seriously consider that.   I sent away for Henry J Harman's birth certificate and got back the proof that that is exactly who he is.   He was born to Henrietta - interestingly there appears to be a father's name crossed out but looks like '..... Robert Wildman.   Can't read the first name and there appears to be a 14 in there for some reason or not but the other two names appear to be very clear.

Anyway - thanks again.

That's great that you've been able to make progress.  The 14 is likely to be a cross-reference to the registrar's record of amendments. If you post the relevant section of the certificate on the Deciphering board Rootschatters may be able to assist in making out the first name