HELP - Thomas Vernal Dobson Massachusetts

[johnnyboy]

Sandra, John

Thank you so much for this info it gives me something to chase.
John in answer to your question yes they definitely did originate from Thornton.  I have Grandfather Bertram, GG Walter, GGG grandfather Benjamin GGGG granfather John the tax collector.  Is your Joseph Benjamin's older brother?

Hi Debbie: Just saw that you had posted replies about the Dobsons on April 17 on the Street Names of Thornton thread on the Yorkshire board. I posted on that thread when it began, but Rootschat didn't notify me of recent replies. Had to go look for myself.

The Dobsons of Thornton are a mish-mash. I haven't figured out how Joseph Dobson (my 3x great grandfather) is related to the other Dobsons in Thornton. The parish records are spotty on this. I think my Joseph Dobson is the younger brother of John Dobson the tax collector. They were neighbors for at least thirty years in Kilham, a section of Thornton. There is also an Isaac Dobson to confuse matters even more. Where he comes in I have no idea. 

My Joseph Dobson's father (and perhaps John Dobson's) father seems to be another Joseph Dobson, though that is by no means certain.

One of my Joesph Dobson's daughters, Susey, married a James Slater. Their son Albert and family emigrated to Lawrence, Massachusetts in the early 1900s.

My dad married one of Albert's granddaughters, a 2x great granddaughter of Joseph Dobson. I know the Lawrence area from visiting relatives there. 

Somehow you and I are probably cousins--third, fourth, or fifth.

Regards,
John 

[Debbie1161]

Hi John,

I know what you mean there are so many of them it does get confusing and I have gone down more than one wrong road.

Have you seen the 1841 census?  There is no head of the family for Benjamin just a John and Joseph who are both 15!!

I really don't want to steer you in the wrong direction but I have the baptism for John b1796 and it says his father was Jonas - what do you think?

Just to let you know I still in the area infact I go to Keelham farmshop at least once a month (before I knew any of this) so if you need anything from this end please let me know I'm more than happy to help.

I wonder if Thomas and Nellie emigrated to Massachusetts to be with Albert and his family?

Regards

Debbie

[johnnyboy]

Hi Debbie: John Dobson with father Jonas would not surprise me at all. But when you say that you have John Dobson's baptism, is it from a parish register that was extracted into the IGI or was it submitted to the IGI by a researcher? Or did you order a certificate?

In looking at the IGI, I see various dates for John Dobson's birth, but none of them have a parent or parents listed. They are submitted by researchers and must be used with care.

Joseph Dobson's birth in IGI, on the other hand, is extracted from the parish register. His parents are listed as Joseph Dobson and Elizabeth Illingworth.

I believed that John Dobson and Joseph Dobson were brothers because they lived in neighboring houses. But they may only be cousins.

There are also two or three additional Dobsons to throw into the mix. In 1841, there is a 20-year-old Thomas Dobson living next door to Joseph Dobson. Whose son is he?

There is a Gilbert Dobson, and I know nothing about him except that there was a younger Gilbert Dobson, also, son of Susey Dobson Wood described in the next paragraph.

This second Susey Dobson is not the daughter of Joseph Dobson (my 2xgreat grandmother), but probably a sister of either Joseph Dobson. In 1841, she is married to John Wood and living in Ovenden, a few miles from Thornton. And Susey Dobson (my 2x great grandmother) is age 15 or so and living with her and her husband.

And now, as always happens, my head is hurting just about now.

As for Thomas Vernal and Nellie Dobson emigrating because of Albert Slater: it's possible that they knew of each other in England. After all, Albert's mother was a Dobson and might have been a near-cousin to Thomas Vernal Dobson. But Albert lived in the center of Halifax and Thomas lived in Bradford.

Someone on Rootschat wrote that Lawrence, Massachusetts had a very large population of immigrants from Yorkshire--to the extent that the Yorkshire accent was widely heard there.

Do you know, by the way, what street Thomas lived on in Lawrence? That might give some idea of how near to my Slaters he and his family might have been. If you've seen the 1920 census image, the street name is frequently listed in the left-hand margin, running up the page.

John 

[*Sandra*]

Lawrence City Directory 1920 which say for the year ending September 1921

Vernal (Nellie H) shipper  h 28 Pleasant  (same as 1920 Census)

Sandra

1919 same info - for the year ending September 1920

Hi John & Debbie,

Just to expand on the 1920 address - it was 28 Pleasant Terrace.

On the WW1 Draft in 1918 - 119 Allston Street. Lawrence. (which wasn't to far from Pleasant Terrace)
Employed by Monomac Spinning Co. So. Union Street. Lawrence. Massachusetts.

When Thomas arrived in 1910 - he went to the father-in-law's address:- 320 Prospect Street. Lawrence.

Sandra

[Debbie1161]

Hi John and Sandra

Re the baptism I'm sorry but I don't know what you mean by IGI if it helps the document I have is handwritten and I think I got it via Ancestry.com.  I'll sent it to you if you'd like to see it.

Do you know who Joseph married or where they moved to when they left Thornton?

Sandra you're a star I think you've already answered John's question around the address - does this help John?

Regards

Debbie

[Debbie1161]

I've just come across this link and had to show you http://www.dobsons.co.uk/index.html
I'm sure there's no connection but it did make me wonder 

[*Sandra*]

Hi Debbie,

Fascinating and with 2 photographs - wonder if "johnnyboy" bears any resemblance to either of the 2 gents   

Digressing but just read the probate for Joseph Dobson of Northgate, Elland confectioner who died 25 th November 1885 at Wade Street. Halifax. Will was proved by Eleanor Dobson of Northgate. Elland widow the relict and Robert Henry Dobson of Northgate, Elland, confectioner, the son, the executors. £445 5s 5d

Just out of interest - possible Christening record for this Joseph Dobson  which would probably be the wrong area for you both.

Joseph Dobson  - Birth Date 10 Jan 1829
Christening 8 Mar 1829  - York, Yorkshire, England
Father Joseph Dobson and Mother Jane

[johnnyboy]

Lawrence City Directory 1920 which say for the year ending September 1921

Vernal (Nellie H) shipper  h 28 Pleasant  (same as 1920 Census)

Sandra

1919 same info - for the year ending September 1920

On the WW1 Draft in 1918 - 119 Allston Street. Lawrence. (which wasn't to far from Pleasant Terrace)
Employed by Monomac Spinning Co. So. Union Street. Lawrence. Massachusetts.

Rootschat didn't notify me of the most recent replies.

On Saturday I looked for the Monomac Spinning Company in Lawrence. The company was located at 439 South Union Street in South Lawrence (still the same city but south of the Merrimac River, whle most of the city is north of the river).

The company closed several decades ago when all of the mills in Lawrence began moving to the southern U.S. (and then overseas). But the buildings, which are very large and just one of many textile mills in Lawrence, are still standing and are being redeveloped. I mention the Monomac Spinning Co.'s location because my mother's family lived on South Union St., but a few blocks away.

John 

[johnnyboy]

Hi John and Sandra

Re the baptism I'm sorry but I don't know what you mean by IGI if it helps the document I have is handwritten and I think I got it via Ancestry.com.  I'll sent it to you if you'd like to see it.

Do you know who Joseph married or where they moved to when they left Thornton?

Sandra you're a star I think you've already answered John's question around the address - does this help John?

Regards

Debbie

Hi Debbie: The IGI (International Genealogical Index) is an index complied by the Mormon church from birth records around the world. They been at it for years. In the UK, the birth/christening records come from the parish registers. Interestingly, John Dobson the tax collector is not listed in the IGI by birth/christening. His entry is a submitted entry, which is a record submitted to the IGI by a researcher (usually a Mormon doing a family tree). These submitted records are frequently inaccurate because the research is done by people with no background in research.

In the case of John Dobson, only an estimated year of birth, 1796, is given. The only other information in the entry is his marriage to Elizabeth (Betty).

If I have the correct person, my 3x great grandfather Joesph Dobson has an entry in the IGI, with information apparently taken from the Thornton parish register. He was born Feb. 23, 1797, and his parents were Joseph Dobson and Elizabeth Illingworth.

I'd be interested in seeing John Dobson's birth record. I can send you an e-mail address via a personal message tomorrow.

As for Joseph Dobson: He lived in Thornton his entire life, until he died in 1880. In fact, from 1841 until 1880, he seems to have a lived in only one or two houses--both in Kilham. One is on Pit Lane, the other is Sandal Hill. I think both are fairly close to the Kilham Farm Shop, though I can't be positive of that, since I never been to the Kilham Farm Shop.

Joseph married twice--first to Hannah Longbottom, my 3x great grandmother, probably from Thornton, but the marriage only says Bradford. After Hannah died in August 1850, Joseph married Elizabeth Wilkinson in Bradford in time for the 1851 census.

It was Joseph's children who began to move away from Thornton. One daughter moved to Bradford with her three sons. But a number of the children stayed in Thornton, and I suppose I have some cousins there today.

John