Louis Henry Clarence

[rosie99]

cannot find a birth that fits anywhere for mr clarence
rosie have you found one
his place of birth seems to differ as well between 1901-1911
ray ;
if at all possible it would be worthwhile looking at the 1911 census

I can't see anything either.  I have tried christian name only searches as well on freebmd for birth and marriage. 

[avm228]

Have you had any better luck tracing Eileen/Eleanor Doris McMinn prior to 1901? She seems every bit as elusive

[rosie99]

Can't see her either     

But there is this birth from her 2nd marriage
December qtr 1913
-------- Mahon  (mmn McMinn)  Prescot  8b 1487

[andrewalston]

The best match in the births is an Arthur Henry Clarence, born Camberwell in Q4 of 1872. Has the advantage of matching the birthplace of Joseph Peachey - a tenuous connection though it may be.

The 1911 image shows no sign of an "A" on the end of Louis, who claims to come from York.

A check of the London baptisms on Ancestry shows a Louis George Clarence, born 19 Sep 1843, son of Louis Arnand & Mary Ann, baptised at Holborn in 1849. Could this be a relative?

[heatherjulie]

Hi
On Ancestry, there is a record for an Eileen A W McMinn in the British postal service records. 1921 Stalybridge.
I don't have a subscription to view this record.

Heather

[ray-1]

I am wondering if I am looking at two Louis Henry's.  Puzzled by the wife EILEEN DORIS who uses her name on  the census 1911, second marriage and grave details. Whereas the 1901 census shows her down as ELEANOR D CLARENCE.  Also puzzled by the two different birth areas for Louis, London and York. Regarding the banns and then no trace of the marriage ceremony, would Eileen Doris put on herself down on her  second marriage certificate as a spinster or as a widow. These are all just thoughts and need of course checking out. But once again thank you for your input and signposts its been a great help.

[andrewalston]

1881 has a 6-year-old Visitor with a Lodging House Keeper in Fulham. He's called Louis Henry and said to be from Newcastle-upon-Tyne. There is no matching birth with Henry as a surname, and he's roughly the right age, so this might be a possible sighting. No obvious relatives there.

[avm228]

I am wondering if I am looking at two Louis Henry's.  Puzzled by the wife EILEEN DORIS who uses her name on  the census 1911, second marriage and grave details. Whereas the 1901 census shows her down as ELEANOR D CLARENCE.  Also puzzled by the two different birth areas for Louis, London and York. Regarding the banns and then no trace of the marriage ceremony, would Eileen Doris put on herself down on her  second marriage certificate as a spinster or as a widow. These are all just thoughts and need of course checking out. But once again thank you for your input and signposts its been a great help.

We haven't yet found a suitable birth for Eileen/Eleanor, but I am convinced they are the same person. In the 19th century the names Eleanor/Ellen/Helen were often used interchangeably. Eileen became fashionable in England by the turn of the century, so perhaps Eleanor (or whatever she was born as) decided to update her image and call herself Eileen. Or maybe she was always Eileen and the head of household in 1901 was mistaken as to her name.

As to Louis' different birthplaces, bear in mind that the householder giving the information in the 1901 census was not Louis himself; it was the owner of the house in which he was boarding.  It seems to me to be tolerably clear that the 1901 and 1911 entries are for the same couple, notwithstanding the inconsistencies.

Eileen clearly thought of herself as Louis' wife, or at least held herself out as such. She would have been a minor (under 21) when they considered marriage in 1900/1901 so perhaps hit a hitch with a lack of parental consent or similar. There is of course the possibility that they did marry somewhere other than England and Wales (e.g. Scotland) but could also easily have got away with pretending to be married.

[ray-1]

Hi avm, yes it had crossed my mind about the marriage taking place outside of the area and wondered if, going by the Eileens surname  and the geographical area, Liverpool, if there was an Irish connection which would also help to explain the birth certificate difficulty.