Bate and Lucas families, Wolverhampton

[ciderdrinker]

No problem with that Scranpot.
As for the Wolverhampton archive's catholic records,not sure exactly what they have got.The only one I've tried personally was that little blue book for St Paul and St Peter's.I know they don't have the original parish records in most cases.They are at Staffordshire Archives in Stafford so it would be best to ask before you travel.
As for William John Bate and Ann Lucas they do seem a bit of a Romeo and Juliet situation.If her birth is right she would have only been 16 when she married and he was this sophisticated older man from London.I could understand her parentas being a bit worried.Maybe that's why they went to Birmingham.
Any way good luck for now
Ciderdrinker

[Scranpot]

Many thanks Ciderdrinker, will let you know if I turn up anything interesting! And will see if Stafford might fit into my travel plans ... there's such a step change between the immediacy of online records and traipsing round the country examining original records ...

[Scranpot]

Hi Ciderdrinker, haven't been to Wolverhampton yet but have been trying to find out what happened to Ann Bate (nee Lucas) and her son James Francis Bate. They are both in the 1871 census data, living at Lane Green, Tettenhall, she is described as 'widow, landowner' and he is 'unmarried, agricultural labourer'. In the 1873 'Return of owners of land' Ann is listed as owning 21-odd acres in Tettenhall. Then they both disappear! I imagined that Ann might have died before the 1881 census - she was 59 in the 1871 census, but I can't find a record of an Ann Bate death anywhere near Wolverhampton between 1873 and 1913; nor any marriage or death for James Francis Bate between 1870 and 1930. (There is a James Bate, b. Tettenhall abt 1833 in the 1891 census, but he is a lockmaker and after two decades as an agricultural labourer, in spite of his criminal record, this seemed an unlikely trade for him). Can you suggest anywhere I can look? (If this is too big an ask I shall quite understand, I don't want to be a nuisance!)

[ciderdrinker]

Dear Scranpot.
Nice to hear from you again.I see what you mean they just disappear.
Had a look through the wills but no luck there.
Possible deaths for a plain James bate
Dec 1900  age 62 Wolverhampton 6b 420.
Dec 1891 age 53 wolverhampton 6b 394.
June 1913 age 74 Wolverhampton 6b 679.
Also while you are at Wolverhampton the burial ground at Bushbury is not included in the indexs at Wolverhampton history and there must be a catholic cemetary or wherever for William John Bate to be buried.
Could see if any deeds have survived for her property.
There is a transcript of the criminal trial for James Francis on Staffordshire name indexs but that''ll cost you £7.00 and yoy already know about that.
Will have a good dig round see what I can find but nothing standing out at the moment.Get back if I find anything.
Ciderdrinker

[ciderdrinker]

Had a look round and so far found extra catholic churches at Wolverhampton .
St Mary and St John Snow Hill opened 1855
St  Patrick Westbury St opened 1867
Saint  Joseph Walsall St
The records look like they are at Birmingham dioscian office.
Will carry on  looking.
Ciderdrinker

[Scranpot]

Oh, many thanks for these suggestions! I'll make a point of asking about Bushbury burials. The only family burials I'm sure of are Ann Lacon (nee Bate) and her husband William, because I have their funeral cards - they were buried in 1893 and 1894 respectively in 'Sedgley Catholic Churchyard'. I've identified this as St Chad's Sedgley, and went to visit; unfortunately, their records only start in the early years of the last century, and I couldn't find any gravestones. A helpful person at the Genealogical Society suggested that this was because they couldn't afford them. Doh!

I will start now with the James Bate deaths you have found - one at a time, starting with 1891, on the basis that agricultural labourers probably had a hard life (at £9.25 a throw you clutch at these clues ...) I'd also be quite interested in the transcript of his trial, and at £7 it sounds quite good value compared to BMDs!

Am planning to visit Wolverhampton on Friday 11 May, so have a bit of time to prepare.

Many thanks again.

[ciderdrinker]

Dear Scranpot
Have checked the MI's for Tettenhall and St George's Wolverhampton-no luck there.
Had a lokk at the National Burial index 3rd edition but no entries for either of them.It does seem to have very few entries after 1834 compared to the 2nd edition which came in 4 discs depending on date.So if you see one  of that hanging about your local library it might be worth a look.
I did have a look at William John Bate and Ann Lucas's marriage.
William John Bate bach of this parish married Ann Lucas spinster of this parish by banns 21.10.1827 signed both of them.Witnesses Elizabeth Lucas and Robert Powell who both signed.
Not really much more that springs to mind.Will go and check if they have Sedgley MI's here but if you don't hear back from me,I didn't find anything.
Ciderdrinker

[Scranpot]

This is really good of you Ciderdrinker! I hope you're not spending too much time on my elusive relatives?

And, where did you find William John Bate and Ann Lucas's marriage record? Was it original (i.e. signed in their own handwriting)? I would be most excited to see that! And by banns - presumably it was not a spur of the moment thing, and they had been living in Birmingham for at least three weeks ...

I'll try our local library for the National Burial Index.

Thanks again, and I do hope I'm not taking up too much of your time!

Scranpot

[ciderdrinker]

Hello again.
Yes it was an original copy I saw.It's om microfilm ,so it is their handwriting.I'll try to get you a copy next time I'm at Birmingham archives.They are only open Wednesday to Friday at the moment,so I'm afraid it'll be next week.
 Also had a look at MI's for Sedgeley and Coseley over there but no luck I'm afraid.
Ciderdrinker