Bate and Lucas families, Wolverhampton

[Scranpot]

Many thanks Ciderdrinker, very exciting! But please don't go to any trouble (or expense) - I'd happily make a detour to Birmingham to get it!

Apparently the Meltham (West Yorks) FHS has a subscription to a site which has the 2nd edition National Burial Index so will have a look at that this week.

Scranpot

[Scranpot]

Have just got back from the Meltham and the local FHS - they have the 3rd edition of the National Burials Index installed on their computers, and like you I couldn't find any of my Bates/Lucases. The FHS still have the 2nd edition on four CDs, but couldn't open them on any of their PCs (I think whoever set up the PCs must have made it impossible to mess with them). They did let me borrow it ... but I don't have the software to open the files ... Doh! Still they had some interesting stuff about my husband's family who come from round here.

Hey ho.

Scranpot

[ciderdrinker]

Dear Scranpot.
Have been to Birmingham today and got a copy of that marriage for William John Bate and Ann Lucas.
So now I can either send you it via e-mail or through the post.Drop me a pm with which would be easier.
Sorry to hear about the National Burial index.I think the librarian choose how they can mess it up.Birmingham have it ,but it will only load on the computer which won't print.So it's notepad and pen for the afternoon slog.
All for now
Ciderdrinker

[Scranpot]

Oh, you are kind! I do hope you didn't go to any expense? Please email it, if that's easiest - my email is *

Will ask Wolverhampton Archive if they have the National Burial Index 2nd edition. The chap there seems quite helpful, by phone and email anyway!

Scranpot

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[ciderdrinker]

Dear Scranpot
I know it's a long time and it may be nothing.But I've just spotted a Will on Wolverhampton's history site for a John Bate of Loan Green Tettenhall gentleman.No detials except date  proven 4.6.1804 written 6.4.1796.
Might be worth checking out next time your in Wolverhampton.
Ciderdrinker

[Scranpot]

Sorry for delay responding Ciderdrinker, have been on holiday.

Many thanks for this, will definitely look out for it! I'm in London again early August and will try and find out more about William John's father, William Bate, and his brothers and sisters (William married in 1792 and William John wasn't born till 1800 so I'm betting he had some siblings). I wonder if William was from Wolverhampton, went to London and made good, and William John went (or was sent) back home? There is another Bate family living in Tettenhall at the same time, millers and farmers, who I found in a multi-volume Staffordshire history in a library in (I think - should pay proper attention!) Codsall when I was looking for old maps.

Will let you know if I find anything interesting.

Fran

[Scranpot]

Hi Ciderdrinker

Finally got to Wolverhampton last week to look at the copy of John Bate's will in the Archives, and thought you might like to know how I got on. Very interesting, thanks for the tip! He's definitely the right John Bate: he is living in Tettenhall and has a son called William Bate, in London, described as an 'Officer of Excise'. Lots of legal gobbledegook about property; fortunately my other half is a lawyer and interpreted it for me. There was some property in Tettenhall in which his son William is given a life interest, then after his death it goes to William's 'legally begotten' issue, which may explain why William's son, William John the professor of languages, fetched up there.

John Bate's eldest son was called Michael, also in London (you found a Michael Bate marriage in London I think?) - doesn't say what his profession is but all he got from his father's will was 'one shilling only to be paid to him within twelve months after my decease'! I wonder what he did wrong?

There were also two daughters: Ann, and Hannah, who was married to John Tovey; they had a son called James. They all got some life interests in various bits of property, which then went to their children. William also got a life interest in John Bate's 'Tythes and his Seat and Pew' in Tettenhall Parish Church! This also then went to his children. I've tried to find birth dates for Ann, Hannah and Michael online but no success so far.

John Bate is described as 'gentleman' but he makes his mark, rather than signing his name, which I find a bit odd!

There are loads more documents in the W/V Archive which mention John Bate, some also mentioning a William Bate who is a 'steel toy maker', but doesn't it take an age to read and transcribe them - and they're far too big to photocopy, I really need a couple of days there!

My visit to the Westminster Archive looking for William Bate's other children was a bit frustrating. I only managed to find one, a daughter called Ann, who was born 27 February 1793 and baptised at the Roman Catholic Chapel in the Portuguese Embassy on 13 March, sponsors William Fonder and Grace Fallon (there she is again!). Then nothing till William John was born in 1800.

Sorry for rambling on ... any suggestions for further research would be very greatly appreciated!

Fran

[ciderdrinker]

Hi there
Lovely to hear from you after all this time.Great to know it was the right Will.
I'm afraid it's been so long I need to get up to speed again.
   Am I right,that John Bate who died 1804 is the father of William Bate married 1792 who is father of William john born 1800?
  I've found some burials for John Bate 11.6.1804 Tettenhall,Ann 11.9.1801 and a Sarah Bate daughter of John Bate 10.6.1771 at Tettenhall but that's all so far.
  Not sure what Staffordshire archives might have for Tettenhall in the way of deeds and tithes for the parish,but I'll look into that.
  Will get back to you if I find more,but have a Good Christmas if I don't.
Ciderdrinker

[Scranpot]

Many thanks for this prompt reply! Sorry about the long silence over the summer, things didn't pan out as I'd planned ...

Yes, you're right. What a memory! And thanks for the prompt about burials. I'm sure the John Bate burial in June 1804 is right. I wonder if the Ann Bate who died in 1801 was his wife? I've had a look and found another Ann Bate of Lane Green, Tettenhall, who died in 1814 aged 64: she might be John Bate's spinster daughter? (I know she survived him, because there is a document in the Wolverhampton Archive dated 1805 which names her and her brother William as executors of their father's will.) Can't find a will for her, or for William or William's son William John, though.

It's really good of you to take an interest! I hope it's not a chore ...

With best wishes for Christmas and the New Year

Fran