which George MOSS

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Hi Rootschat Members,

Just hoping for some fresh eyes on a problem we have been looking at for some years now

George Moss aka Gabriel Moss married Sarah Ann Davies in Sydney in 1839 (George was a convict and obtained permission to marry Sarah who had arrived free) They had 8 male and 4 female offspring, between 1837 and 1854. Sarah died in 30th December 1861. George married Mary Ann Heuston in 1864 they had 4 children 2 male  2 female. (1 female born in Melbourne 1 male died in Melbourne)

Certificates of marriages and deaths & burial held. Convict records held.

Other researchers claim that he was also the father of 4 children; 3 female 1 male; to Jane Batwell between 1862 and 1866.

We think that the researchers have latched on to the coincidence of the closeness between the  George Moss's death in 1874 and  Janes Batwell's subsequent legal marriage to James Napthali later that year,

From an online site (my comments in red):
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~smithwoods/indiI00019.html

There is no certificate to record of the birth or baptism of either Albert or Rose. On the birth certificate for Annie & Rebecca, they both list their parents as Jane Batwell and George Moss, as store keeper and that the marriage was in 1861  in Sydney.
Sarah did not die until 30th December 1861 this would indeed have meant he was a bigamist Rebecca was born in 1863 when jane was living at Liverpool St. Previous children of marriage is listed a "1 boy living".
In 1866 Jane was living with her parents, (as her mother sick, and died in 1866) at South head Rd. In 1866 Annie Leah was born, however on the birth certificate the previous children of marriage are listed as:

    3 females, 6 males living by first wife  (in 1866 our George had 4 females  and 7 males living)
    2 females, 1 male living by previous wife ( If this in intended to refer to MARY ANN H? her children were born 1865, 1867,1869 1871 does not seem possible that they could  be included on the 1866 Annie Leah's birth certificate!!!!)

On George Moss' death certificate in 1874 Mary Ann states 2 sons 1 daughter living  1 deceased which again again contradicts the above information (3 born Sydney 1 born Melbourne).

from another researcher:

There is no recorded marriage for Jane and George in the colony of NSW, though the birth certificates of their children list George had 8 living children form his first marriage, and 4 from his second.  Hence the mystery.

The above seems to me to preclude the George Moss m to Sarah Davies being the father of Jane's children

We have been researching all references to GEORGE MOSS in Sydney at that time to find another possible candidate.

cont

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Code: [Select]

from:  John Levi & his 2 books “These are the names” & “Australian Genesis”

George Moss 1809 1854  arr 1832 –
 father Marcus Warschauer (Mordecai Moses) transported to Sydney 1836  - mother Amelia Cohen –
siblings to Aust :Alexander Moses; Catherine Moss; Rosetta Moss –
George sec to Sydney Synagogue 1833 until 1838 –
George was newspaper man – contributed to “Jewish Chronicle” in London –
1833 took over Rose Inn at Maitland until 1834 when moved to Sydney –
by 1835 15 yo non Jewish common law wife, Louisa Wilkes –
1836 daughter Maria (Miriam) b Sydney & registered as Jew-
George jnr b 1837, Rosetta b 1838 – Jewish marriage 23rd March 1840 –
Louisa became Leah Abrahams – Abraham b 1842 d 1843;
 Montague 1844 (called himself Montefiore M Moss; Lewis b 1846 –
Leah d 1851 –
4 July 1837 Australian newspaper appointed George ‘collector’ on behalf of paper –
31 March 1839 GR Nichols of Australian announced that without Moss’s sig
no receipt for money for newspaper valid –
George editor of 1st Jewish newspaper “Voice of Jacob in early 1840s –
 listed as having house at Bridge St & house in Kent St
(Sydney Gazette 9 & 19th Sept 1842) –
George offended synagogue committee with article in SMH –
suspended by committee – broke health & mind –
 d Tarban Creek Lunatic Asylum 44 yo – children looked after by Jewish Orphan Soc

George later became shipping & custom-house agent & George jnr followed in his footsteps
This George from the Synagogue had 3 male and 2 female children mother Leah/Louisa one son GEORGE born 1837 was old enough to be a canditate, he died in 1895.

from trove in 1872 a GEORGE MOSS charged in Sydney with deserting his 3 illegitimate children in Melbourne could still be either George Moss as George Moss and Mary Ann Heuston were in Melbourne at this time and she had 3 living children.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/13264048?searchTerm=george+moss
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/5840113?searchTerm=george+moss

If as claimed by the other researcher he had married Jane in 1861 or 1862 no record to be found (remember his wife did not die till 30th December) so the possibilty is if he married Jane in 1861 then the marriage was bigamous, if he married her in 1862 then the 1874 marriage to Mary Ann would have been bigamous.

George & Sarah Moss also had a son George W Moss,  he too has been researched and was a possible candidate athough he married in 1863 and had 2 sons and 1 daughter  born too late to be those refered to in the other's researches.
 
AJHS have been helpful & Trove, NSW records, Victorian records, all searched extensively using Moss , Moses, Morris, Batwell, Batewll, Bathwell etc.

 Fresh eyes are sorely needed

Robyn

[Rhonda May]

Hi Robyn

Picked up on one small detail.
George married Mary Ann Heuston in 1864 they had 4 children 2 male  2 female. (1 female born in Melbourne 1 male died in Melbourne)

'Tis the other way round -
Amy Florence born Sydney, died Melbourne  1870 aged 1y. Reg  #9502
Ernest Arthur born Melbourne 1871. Reg  #18252

Rhonda

[Rhonda May]

Hi Robyn

I noticed a birth for an Albert MORRIS with father George and mother Jane in Sydney.
reg #847/1862

Found a death for just one Rose SMITH in 1919 and the father was named Robert with mother named Jane.

Wonder why Jane married in 1874 using the name BATEWELL if she had actually been married to George?  If there was no legal marriage of George and Jane then why was George charged with three illegitimate children left in Melbourne?

Rhonda

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Rhonda,

 Thanks for the correction it is easy to make a mistake when looking through volumes of paperwork
Yes what a puzzle it is!! 
Which "mrs"  George Moss has the 3 illegitimate children Mary whose marriage is registered  or Jane's whose is only implied?

Indeed which George Moss,

• George father Mordechai mother Amelia Cohen b 1804 died 1854 can be ruled out on the date of his death.
  George b 1837- 1895 father George mother Leah/Lousia Wilkes  said by the AJHS and the Great Synagogue not to have married
  George aka Gabriel b 1814 father Woolfe mother Frances married to Sarah and then Mary Ann?
  George Moss b 1841 d 1902 father George Moss mother Sarah Davies had his family after tha dates on Annie Leah Moss's birth certificate.

There were several Moss families in Sydney at this time but not many GEORGE's old enough to have had 3 families!!!

We also found that birth for Albert in 1862. However the other researchers won't accept that it is their Albert as the surname is MORRIS!!!! (you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink)

They have Rose Moss married to Joseph Sidney Smith and dying in Kogarah in 1919 so thatc would match. Guess they ignore the ROBERT as her father !!!!! But no birth in NSW for a Rose Morriss/ Moss/Moses. The even postulate that Rose might really be Annie Leah

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~smithwoods/indiI00006.html

they have the marriage certificate but it does not clarify things. Hmmm wondering if ROSE could have been born in Melbourne?? in 1866

regards

Robyn

[Rhonda May]

Robyn

The death of Sarah was in newspapers dated Dec 1862 and Jan 1863 so a supposed marriage to Jane before that would have most certainly been bigamous!


The newspapers of the day had notices for the children born to the wife of George MOSS that correspond to Mary (as the legal wife).  No birth notices for Jane's children.

Empire (Sydney, NSW : 1850 - 1875) Friday 11 August 1865
MOSS.—On the 16th July, at her residence, Harrington-street,
the wife of Mr. George Moss, sen., of a daughter.

The Sydney Morning Herald (NSW : 1842 - 1954) Saturday 22 June 1867
MOSS—June 2nd, at her residence, 35, Prince-street, the wife of George W. Moss, of a son. 

Empire (Sydney, NSW : 1850 - 1875) Friday 8 October 1869
On the 28th September, at her residence, Victoria-street, Woolloomooloo, the wife of George Moss, wine merchant, of a daughter.


Possibly this one since son George was given Woolfe as a middle name?
George aka Gabriel b 1814 father Woolfe mother Frances married to Sarah and then Mary Ann?

George had this brother in London.
Empire (Sydney, NSW : 1850 - 1875) Friday 27 December 1867
DEATH
On the 2nd of October, at his residence, Backchurch-lane,  Commercial Road, London, Lewis Moss, aged 42 years, brother of George Moss, wine merchant, of Sydney.


There was a marriage in QLD for a George MOSS to a Jane DALY in 1871.  That George may have been in Sydney in the previous decade?


Rhonda

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Rhonda

Yes we have tracked trove births, deaths funerals and addresses and core;ated tehm all.
We have a time line for all the Georges and the births and deaths of  them, spuses and children.
Again nothing for Jane.
nice pick up

There was a marriage in QLD for a George MOSS to a Jane DALY in 1871.  That George may have been in Sydney in the previous decade?

will look at QLD records  as we know that one of George Moss' daughters, Sophia Elizabeth Clark Moss and  Joseph Phillips in 1866, went to Brisbane after marriage also they had a second marriage in Brisbane.
modified to add
 George Moss and Jane Daly had three daughters post marriage. They are the only births registered with father George . ]

Robyn

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following up on 1927 deaths for Jane Napthali, nee Batwell previously Moss

There is Jane Moss 1927   10400/1927 aged 84 in the Parramatta Asylum = dob 1843  close to the 1841 date for Jane Batwell. NO PARENTS GIVEN and assumed to be JAne Batwell by the other researchers.. Other 1927 Deaths for Jane Moss have parents names and can  be ruled out.

However from trove:
1927 death for JANE MOSS aged 84:

http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/16370108?searchTerm=moss&searchLimits=l-title=35|||l-decade=192|||l-category=Family+Notices|||l-year=1927

daughter given as Mrs E Pettitt.

marriage 8138/19126 beteen Maude Moss and Ernest Pettitt possibly the Hennrietta Maude Moss born 1891/C2051 in QLD to George moss and JANE Daly

So most likely not the correct death for Jane Napthali/Moss/Batwell

So it seems We now need to find the correct death  for JANE

Robyn

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Hi,
Now looking in WA for Jane Moss:

daughter Annie Leah's Marriage in WA
29yo Leah Clark (widow) Father George MOSS mother Jane BATFIELD 28 Mar 1900 Guildford, Western Australia, Australia to 40yo William Borthwick. age a bit out but that is not unusual

Leah's first marriage
1245/1894 CLARK ROBERT G to MOSS LEAH at SYDNEY

http://www.monaropioneers.com/napthalim.htm has details of her husband James Napthali's family and Everingham cousins and found some of them dying in WA also.

Can't seem to locate a death for either Leah or JAne.

I will keep looking

Robyn