Emma Mills born abt 1800 Box, Wiltshire

[howesglos]

Hello,

Would anyone be able to help me trace the birth of Emma Mills born abt 1800 in Box?  I believe she married my great, great grandfather in 1829 in St Paul's Church, Bristol.

However, I've been unable to find any certificates to support her birth date.  In the 1851 census her place of birth is named as Kingsdown, Wiltshire.  In the 1861 census her birth place is named as Box, Wiltshire.

An archivist at Wiltshire & Swindon Archives has suggested that her family may have been non conformist - and one of her daughters was definately buried in the non conformist section of Thornbury graveyard.

Any help would be much appreciated.  Thank you. 

[lizdb]

Hi

There wont be any birth certificate, as you are looking pre 1837 when Civil Registration began
So the best you can hope for is a christening record -  in the Parish Records if it took place in a C of E church.
If her family were non conformist it may be harder - not all non conformist churches practiced infant baptism, and for those that did not all kept records that have survived.

What records there are (both Parish and non conformist) should be at the Local Records office, so if the Archivist there hasnt found anything, I am not sure that there will be anything to find!

[Captain2]

Hello and a very warm welcome to Rootschat    Who did Emma marry in 1829? do you have his name and/or any details? also any info about any children they may have had? it is always a great help to others if you can give us as much information as you can about the family.  You mention that you have sight of Emma in the 1851 and 1861 census, do you have a reference? this may help others with the research.

Kind Regards

Angie

[keyboard86]

Hi to help out it looks like she married a John Howse/Hawse in 1851 Census Ref HO107/1957/333/12 and 1861 RG09/1748/82/10

Keyboard86

[Captain2]

Oh yes, found them. Children with them in 1851 -  Joseph 20, Charles 17 and Caroline 9. Hmm.. still no luck  finding anything for Emma  I'm afraid

[trish1120]

It may be worth getting a look at the actual Marriage Record as Emma would be 26/29 when she Married and may have been a Widow.

Emma MILLS/John HOWES, 20 Sept 1829, St Pauls, Clifton, Gloucestershire

If not possible, Carolines Birth Cert would provide details if she was Married before.

Trish

I did notice Trees dont have the 1841 Census;
Under HOWSE
John 40
Emma 35
Ellen 12
Joseph 10
Thomas 9
Charles 7
William 5
Mark 2
HO107/368/4/Thornbury

1851 Census Mark c 1838, is with his Uncle JOSEPH Howse c 1803, Glous in Thornbury.

[howesglos]

Hello Everyone,

I have all the information on the children and all the census records etc because I've researched all of them pretty thoroughly in the hope of tracing the mysterious Emma (MaryAnn).

Is the actual Marriage Record different from that of the record of marriages solemnized? I have that (it's St Paul's number 742) and it gives her name as Emma Mills.

All the children are born to John Howes (also Hawes, House, Howse etc) so would getting Caroline's actual birth certificate give me any more information?  Caroline was married and her married name was Salmon and she was buried in the non conformist section of Thornbury graveyard, so perhaps the archivist's suggestion that Emma was a non conformist is correct.

However, that doesn't explain why the first three children were recorded as being born to John and MaryAnn after his marriage to Emma.

There are other Mary Ann's in the family; for example Joseph Howse (John's brother) mentioned in Trish's message below has a daughter named Mary Ann, but I suppose it was a fairly common name at that time and doesn't necessarily mean that she was named for her aunt.

She seems such a shadowy person, yet she had seven children and her life is well documented in some ways.  Fascinating.

My thanks again for your help. 

[trish1120]

Hi,
Yes Carolines Birth Cert would say something like;
Mother Ellen Howes, formerly..., nee... if she was Married before 1829 to someone else.
If you dont have a B/C of a Child how do you know that that 1829 Marriage is the correct one?

Getting someone to look at the actual Parish Record of that 1829 Marriage would confirm if either John/Ellen or both were Married before.

When/where were the 1st 3 Children Christened that you mention to a John/Mary Ann?
John may have got Religion and then had them Christened after Marrying Ellen.
He may have been Married before also.

So more questions than answers.

Trish

[howesglos]

 

Sorry, Trish but I am getting more confused.  I thought that the copy of the marriage between John and Emma that we found in Bristol Records Office was a copy of the actual parish register (we got it from microfiche).  Is that merely an index and is there is another register with more details?

So should I ask for Record 742 from St Paul's and that would give me more?

Thanks

Sue