Re: Pre-1841 censuses of East End of London?

[gervaise]

Does anyone have any pre 1841 census info. for Dorman families in Southwark or other areas of Middlesex?.
Someone I have been dna matched with has a John Shadrack Dorman b.Southwark London.His parents were thought to be William Dorman b.c.1803 and Ann Oliver.
My James Dorman was only 15 when convicted of larcency in Leicester Sq. in 1834 and transported to Australia.His father Robert,a gasfitter may appear as head of the household though.
Does anyone have any other info. on the Dorman or Shadrack families of London pre 1841?.

Regards,

Linda
in Australia

[Valda]

Hi

Southwark across the river Thames from the City of London was in the county of Surrey until 1889 when it became a metropolitan borough of what was to become a county of London, enlarging London from just the 'square mile' of the City.

These are the surviving censuses by county pre 1841

http://www.essex.ac.uk/history/Staff_Research/working-papers/MW-RW-BM.pdf

There are some surviving censuses for Southwark some of which have been indexed. The 'Selon Index' is privately owned. The contact details are on this web page.

http://www.southwark.gov.uk/info/200330/family_history_research/2067/family_history_societies/1

Middlesex was the county to the north of the River Thames surrounding the City of London. Leicester Square is the Westminster area of Middlesex, to the west of the City of London. What little survives for Westminster parishes is held at the City of Westminster Archives. They have a more detailed listing of early censuses.

http://www.westminster.gov.uk/services/libraries/archives/family-history/information-sheets-11-to-14/

Leicester Square would be close to St Martin in the Fields and St Paul Covent Garden churches.


Regards


Valda

[Bottlebrush]

I am descended from John Shadrack Dorman - we have the same problem as you with James & Robert i.e. we can't find a baptism or a record of him in the 1841 (or 1851) census in Southwark (he says on his daughter's birth certificate that he was born there and was a butcher). He came out here to Australia about 1856 but "disappeared" from the records about 1860. Obviously James and Robert and related to John Shardack - have you any clues yet?

[Valda]

Hi

St George the Martyr Southwark 26th December 1830 born 4th January
John Shadrach Dormer parents William and Ann, Red Cross Street, Mint, father's occupation shoemaker?

1841 census HO107 723 Bk10 folio 54
13 Pavement St Stephen Coleman Street City of London
In the household of John Horton linen draper
John Dormer 11 M(ale) S(servant) not born in county


Regards

Valda

[Bottlebrush]

Thank you so much, Valda. I haven't been able to find that baptismal record on Ancestry, Findmypast or Familysearch! Do you know how I can view the Parish Record?

 That census record makes a lot of sense now!

[Bottlebrush]

Not to worry - I just found it!! Thanks again!

[Bottlebrush]

I am wondering if you have had any luck tracing your James Dorman in the records. I am descended from John Shadrack Dorman (and from his daughter Annie). I understand you have been DNA linked to one of his descendants.

[hannahjgervaise]

Sorry Bottlebrush my reply did not seem to get through,
I did not directly match the descendant but he had a least five matches in common with my family which is way more than chance.
Another of his relatives dna tested with ftdna also.
I tested James because he had London born ancestors in the same period and he had the rare name Shadrack in his name.Also, my Dorman cousin had a dna match with the a Shattuck.Our Dormans have a dna link with the Cakebread,Hales,Boutel/Bowtell,Maylin and Ward families of Barley,Herfordshire,England.Do you know of any links in this County?.
Have you been dna tested with ftdna?.

Regards,

Gervaise

[Bottlebrush]

Hi Gervaise,
No, I don't know of any links in that county. I am totally at a brickwall with my Dormans. There are a lot of Dormans in Warwickshire but I have nothing really to go on. John Shadrack Dorman's father, William, was born about 1794 (according to the age on his death certificate in 1839). I THINK William's wife was Ann Oliver, but I can't be sure. They also had a daughter, Elizabeth Hannah so I have been looking for these names to give me a clue. There are also a lot of Olivers in Warwickshire.
Have you been able to trace your James Dorman yet?
No, I haven't taken a DNA test.
Cheers,
Bottlebrush