John Jones - Chirk, Denbighshire

[irene33]

Hi Everybody,

I have a John Jones Jnr and Snr from Chirk that I have been researching for a while. 
I now believe John Jones Snr (born about 1845) married Catherine Phillips.  Catherine Phillips I believe is the daughter of Jane Phillips.  Yeah those Phillips (Jane & Martha) - all I know is they had lots of children and no husbands (until Martha married anyway).   
Today I received Catherine's birth cert. (1846), naming her mother but no father (no surprise there).
I also received the marriage cert. for Catherine Phillips and John Jones (Wrexham 1866).   Both named their father's which was a surprise.   I didn't know that John was also illegitimate and Catherine actually named someone.   However, I also thought   (a)  picked names because they had to fill in the box OR (b) they named their real father's.   

Next question is John Jones (born about 1845) and all of the census records I have been able to track down he stated he was from Chirk.   Problem is there a approximately 39 John Jones born in Oswestry between 1844 and 1846.   Any ideas, I would like to find out who his mother is and order his birth certificate    
I would at least like to find out who his mother was. 

Any help would be appreciated
Irene

[Gadget]

Hi Irene

Is the John Jones connected to this family:

Hi there,
My John Edward Jones was in district of Weston Rynn, Salop during the 1901 census with his wife and 3 children. 
On the 1911 census he is living in Durham. 
I was just going over the places his children were born most were born in Durham, however,  one was born in Chirk Green also she was listed as age 9 in 1911 her name was Mary Kathleen.   There was another child born in Pendlebury, Lancs (spelling may not be correct.
On the 1911 census he is 37 years of age his wife is 36 and they have been married 17 years.
So his birth year was probably 1873 or 74.   His wife was born 1875. 
My father seemed to think he (John Edward) had relatives in Lancs.
Will this bit of information get us closer?
 

If so, the whole thread is relevant:

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,395115.0.html



gnu


Added - please note that Irene has added all of the text to her first posting since I posted - her line had gone down so none of the info was up apart from the subject line and a 'Hi Everybody'. The info that I found was discovered without ref to this so it's good to see that the families matched! 

[irene33]

Hi gnu,

Yes it is connected, however, I am more interested in his father John Jones that married Catherine Phillips.

Sorry I lost you there for a moment, the wifi went. 

thanks
irene

[Gadget]

Hi

I thought that as that's where you left off last time.

I've had a look at possible marriages  in the broad  area before 1873 ~

There are two possible marriages with a Catherine Phillips and a John Jones on the same index page

June q, 1860, Oswestry v 6a 1295 (as Phillips)
Sept q, 1866 Wrexham  v 11b 415 (duplicate entries under Philipps and Phillips)

Note that they are only possibles.

Do you have anything more on John Jones than last time?



gnu

[Gadget]

From my Ruabon registers, the best bet would be one that took place in Ruabon 13 August 1866 ~

John Jones, 22, (collier) and Catherine Phillips, 20, both of Cefn Mawr

Fathers - William Moody and William Davies ??

This would be the second one in my previous list - Wrexham v 11 p 415

Please note that these are only possibles.


gnu

[Gadget]

Unfortunately, I can't find a suitable couple on the 1871 at the moment. I've tried the Denbighsire and Shropshire areas. I have to be away now but will look again when I get back, unless someone else has found them.

gnu

[irene33]

Hi Gnu,

The marriage cert I received today is for John Jones 22, (collier) and Catherine Phillips, 20 both of Cefn Mawr.

Fathers as you named.

This is my John E. Jones parents.   Catherine Phillips died in 1874.

What I am now trying to determine is who the parent are of John Jones (born about 1844). 

irene

[irene33]

Hi Gnu,

 I have been going through census records for Chirk and area between 1851 and 1871.   

In 1871 I found John Jones and Kate Jones in Ifton Rhyn.   Then I searched for John before 1871 and came up with a possibility of a 1851 Oswestry census of Knockin
Piece 2784, folio 75, Page# 1

Household Members:
Samuel Jones  69
Mary Jones 66
William Jones 22 (son) - Collier
John Jones 5 (grandson)
 
I don't think William is the father of the children John and wondered if any records would show any other children for Samuel and Mary. 

irene

[Gadget]

Just wondering if this is them in 1871:

Coed yr allt, Ifton Rhyn, St Martins
RG10/2784/74/1
Jane Phillips, hd, unm, 46, b. Chirk
Edward Phillips, son, unm, 20, coal miner, b. -do-
John Jones, lodger, m, 27, -do-, -do-
Kate Jones, wife, m, 25, b. Chirk

Next door are a family of Moodys, which includes a Frederick who late married into my family.


I see you've found the Kate one.

gnu