Author Topic: Roman Catholic marriages /burials Cockermouth  (Read 6910 times)

Offline allans

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Re: Roman Catholic marriages /burials Cockermouth
« Reply #9 on: Thursday 22 March 12 20:34 GMT (UK) »
thanks for trying
Tweedie, Garnett,  Smith - !!!, Fearnley,
Bennetts, Waterhouse, Horobin, Tranter

Offline Jos, Whitehaven

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Re: Roman Catholic marriages /burials Cockermouth
« Reply #10 on: Monday 21 January 13 22:14 GMT (UK) »

The marriage takes place in the catholic church (I quote from a certificate) "in the catholic church according to the rites and ceremonies of the Roman Catholics" but as well as being signed by the catholic priest, is signed by the Registrar who was in attendence with his register book.

In a register office ... "Married in the Register Office according to the rites and ceremonies of the" signed by registrar and superintendant registrar.

Hello Geoff,

In some cases it is possible a couple could first marry in a register office and some years later get married in the Catholic Church. Because the couple had been through an earlier civil marriage (and so were 'legally married') the registrar would not attend the second (Catholic) marriage. Only the first (i.e. civil) marriage would show up on the 'Free BMD' website. Without checking the Catholic parish records or already knowing that this was the situation (i.e. from family records) it would be quite easy for family historians to miss the second marriage.

The reason for such a second (Catholic) marriage would be to ensure the couple were "properly" married, especially if any children of the couple in question had been baptised at the Catholic Church. There are a number of instances I could give from the Catholic parishes of St Mary's, Cleator or St Begh's, Whitehaven.

For example, one couple I know of married at Whitehaven Register office in 1918. The first child was born in 1919 and baptised at St Begh's R.C. Church. The following year (1920) the parents were married in accordance with the rites of the Catholic Church, again at St Begh's. The actual dates can be found in the following article I have previously written about this family:
http://2ndww.blogspot.co.uk/2011/09/loved-in-life-mourned-in-silence.html

Perhaps you have come across other examples yourself?

Offline Geoff-E

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Re: Roman Catholic marriages /burials Cockermouth
« Reply #11 on: Tuesday 22 January 13 08:31 GMT (UK) »
Perhaps you have come across other examples yourself?

Actually, I do have one. :)

My mam obtained a certificate of her baptism a few weeks before she married my dad in a C of E church.  The following year, on the back of it was written -

"Ipsa contraxit matrimonium cum (my dad) in ecclesia Sancti Hugonis ... die 20 Januarii 19xx, Signed (Rev) J McC, Vicarius"

Today I broke my personal record for most consecutive days alive.

Offline The House of Cockbain of That Ilk

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Re: Roman Catholic marriages /burials Cockermouth
« Reply #12 on: Tuesday 22 January 13 11:44 GMT (UK) »
A distant cousin of mine had an ancestor who married at St. Begh's on Dec 17th, 1891. Freebmd contains no record of Dominic Burgoyne/Elizabeth Ann Guthrie anywhere around that time, so the church record is the only evidence they were properly married.

Stephen
Cockbain/Cockbone/Cockburn, Cowin (IOM), Farrer, Joughin,  Harter (Austria/Germany/Ireland/USA), Kennedy (IOM/Whitehaven), Lace (IOM), McCabe (County Down), Noble (Cumbria), Redhead, Smitham, Tait/Tate (Cumberland/Borders), Torrens (County Down), Torrentine


Offline Jos, Whitehaven

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Re: Roman Catholic marriages /burials Cockermouth
« Reply #13 on: Tuesday 22 January 13 20:32 GMT (UK) »
A distant cousin of mine had an ancestor who married at St. Begh's on Dec 17th, 1891. Freebmd contains no record of Dominic Burgoyne/Elizabeth Ann Guthrie anywhere around that time, so the church record is the only evidence they were properly married.

Stephen

Interesting ....!  As usual, if you knew the reason why this was so it would seem obvious!

In the 19th C many families settled in West Cumberland (e.g. Whitehaven & West Cumberland) having migrated from Scotland, Ireland, I.o.M. It would be quite possible for a civil wedding to take place in one of these places (Ireland) and the later religious ceremony in Whitehaven.

In France, it is normal practice for church members who are getting married to have two separate wedding ceremonies: a civil one at the Town Hall and a religious one at the parish church. Usually, but not always, the two ceremonies are on the same day or within a few days of each other.


Offline Geoff-E

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Re: Roman Catholic marriages /burials Cockermouth
« Reply #14 on: Tuesday 22 January 13 23:34 GMT (UK) »

In the 19th C many families settled in West Cumberland (e.g. Whitehaven & West Cumberland) having migrated from Scotland, Ireland, I.o.M. It would be quite possible for a civil wedding to take place in one of these places (Ireland) and the later religious ceremony in Whitehaven.

That's a good point Joseph, but I can't see a Dominic Burgoyne in the Irish index.  :-\

I did find an odd one in my tree ... a couple both born c1870, he in Whitehaven, she in Barrow (but moved to 'haven), apparently living in Cumb all the time but popping over to Belfast to get married in 1897.  First child born in 'haven in 1898. [shrug]
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Offline The House of Cockbain of That Ilk

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Re: Roman Catholic marriages /burials Cockermouth
« Reply #15 on: Wednesday 23 January 13 11:22 GMT (UK) »
Dominic was a curious itinerant character. As "Dominick Burgine" he married Jane Cartmel in Workington in 1858. She ran a shop. He was a "herbalist" twice, a traveller (such as in the 1861 census at Ambleside - wife in Workington), and was in trouble with the law at least once. He was latterly in Cockermouth Workhouse (1901), a "peddler (hawker)".

Stephen
Cockbain/Cockbone/Cockburn, Cowin (IOM), Farrer, Joughin,  Harter (Austria/Germany/Ireland/USA), Kennedy (IOM/Whitehaven), Lace (IOM), McCabe (County Down), Noble (Cumbria), Redhead, Smitham, Tait/Tate (Cumberland/Borders), Torrens (County Down), Torrentine

Offline acorngen

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Re: Roman Catholic marriages /burials Cockermouth
« Reply #16 on: Saturday 16 March 13 18:26 GMT (UK) »
An interesting discussion on this thread but it seems no one fully understands civil registration.  The Cockermouth regustration district is that where all parishes within certain boundaries appear.  Weddings whether in a church or in the register office will appear in the GRO indexes (FreeBMD is a transcript of these)  Just because it says Cockermouth one should not assume that the wedding took place in any church in Cockermouth itself. 

Rob
WYATT, COX, STRATTON, all from south Derbyshire and the STS, LEI border Burns Fellows Gough Wilks from STS in particular Black Country and now heading into SOP

Offline Geoff-E

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Re: Roman Catholic marriages /burials Cockermouth
« Reply #17 on: Saturday 16 March 13 20:05 GMT (UK) »
... it seems no one fully understands civil registration ...

Obviously you do, which is something we must be thankful for.  ::)
Today I broke my personal record for most consecutive days alive.