Roman Catholic marriages /burials Cockermouth

[allans]

Please can someone look up the marriage of Edmond Wilson and Mary Twedy -
Q3 1872 Cockermouth. It may be an RC marriage.  I believe this is the same couple as the 1881 Census entry Edward Wilson and Mary, Whitfield Crescent, Workington. RG11; Piece:  5178; Folio:  29; Page:  51; With 3 children.
If this is correct - the 3rd child on the Census is Rosanna Tweedy born 1867 Q4 Cockermouth (the census original was badly filled in and overwritten).
I would like to know if on the marriage cert  her father is Patrick Corr.  I expect her to be a widow but I cant find the death of her 1st husband John Tweedie, they married at the RC chapel in Cockermouth Q1 1867.

Any help greatly appreciated

[The House of Cockbain of That Ilk]

Hi Allans,

This should be under Workington Catholic chapel. The records are on microfilm at our local RO, so I shall look it up next time I'm in.

Stephen

[allans]

That would be greatly appreciated - Thanks.

Here's the sum total of what I know -

John Tweedie married Mary Corr M Cert has 26 Jan 1867, RC chapel, Cockermouth. His father Evan Tweedie, her father Patrick Corr

Rosannah Tweedie born 17 Dec 1867, Cockermouth - no baptism found, poss RC.
Details on BCert match marriage above.
After this date John Tweedie disappears.

Mary Tweedie married Edward Wilson registerd 1872 Q3 Cockermouth.
Was she a widow? Is her father Patrick Corr?

Rosannah Tweedie married James Kenyon 17 Nov 1867, Cockermouth registration office (so again poss RC) father on MCert is John Tweedie, deceased.

As I said I can't find a death for John Tweedie and I am wondering if he did a runner and his wife remarried, of if for some reason his death is missing from transcripts.

I would appreciate knowing if there is anything in the RC records to sort this out
 - it is the Tweedie line that is the main focus of interest as it's my family name.

[Geoff-E]

Rosannah Tweedie married James Kenyon 17 Nov 1867, Cockermouth registration office (so again poss RC) father on MCert is John Tweedie, deceased.

If it was at the Register Office, it would have been a "civil" wedding - no religion involved at all.

[allans]

I quote from RC procedures for marriage
:
Unlike in the Church of England and Church in Wales, where all ministers are able to perform and register the marriage at the same time, a Roman Catholic priest may not have such authosiration. In such circumstances, and to prevent the need for a separate civic ceremony at a later date, the couple (often via the priest) must arrange for a local Registrar or authorised officiant to attend the Catholic marriage ceremony.
:
Thus certificates for RC marriage are issued by the registrar from his book and not by the priest from the church's book, and MC records/references are to the registry office records, not parish records, - although the RC church also records marriages in its own way.

[Geoff-E]

I quote from RC procedures for marriage
:
Unlike in the Church of England and Church in Wales, where all ministers are able to perform and register the marriage at the same time, a Roman Catholic priest may not have such authosiration. In such circumstances, and to prevent the need for a separate civic ceremony at a later date, the couple (often via the priest) must arrange for a local Registrar or authorised officiant to attend the Catholic marriage ceremony.
:
Thus certificates for RC marriage are issued by the registrar from his book and not by the priest from the church's book, and MC records/references are to the registry office records, not parish records, - although the RC church also records marriages in its own way.

You are misunderstanding what it says.

The marriage takes place in the catholic church (I quote from a certificate) "in the catholic church according to the rites and ceremonies of the Roman Catholics" but as well as being signed by the catholic priest, is signed by the Registrar who was in attendence with his register book.

In a register office ... "Married in the Register Office according to the rites and ceremonies of the" signed by registrar and superintendant registrar.

[The House of Cockbain of That Ilk]

I know of at least one St. Beghs marriage that wasn't registered (apparently). I told a distant cousin in Ontario to contact them on their website, and she was sent info, including the marriage (17 Dec 1891) of Dominic Burgoyne and Elizabeth Ann Guthrie, but when I looked at Freebmd I could find no record of it. I once wrote there myself, and received info which included another marriage that seemingly never took place.

An ancestor of mine, Robert Cowan/Cowin, obviously did a runner around 1864/5, since his name was not on the youngest daughter's birth cert (there was also no baptism). There was no further trace of him. A man with the same name and occupation was living in Alabama in 1870, then Oklahoma, but the censuses say he was born in England, instead of the IOM - although I know the IOM can be classed as England in American censuses. His wife remarried to Christopher Reay in 1873.

[allans]

Geoff -
I think we are both correct - I agree with everything you say , and understand that.

My point is that if you havent seen the actual certificate and just have a reference that indicates the certificate is in the registrar's book then that means the registrar issued the certificate - either because the ceremony took place at the registry office or because it was a registrar-attended religious service.

[The House of Cockbain of That Ilk]

Allans,

Checked yesterday, and found no marriage at Workington Catholic SEP 1872. No notice in Whitehaven News, and also not at Cockermouth/Workington St. Michael, so I think it was probably Cockermouth register office.

Stephen