Proof that all Europeans are related from c.1240-1400AD...

[Nick29]

And coupled to that, let's be frank, there's never been that much mixing between the 'classes' in this country - and even further back there would have been even less.

I think you couldn't be more wrong !  There's been many a maid servant who has been quietly dismissed with a nice little 'nest egg' after being made pregnant by a member of the family that employed them.  It was swept under the carpet. And, if you read Bill Bryson's latest book 'At Home' you will find that there were no proper bedrooms in houses a few hundred years ago, everybody (including the servants) slept in the same room to keep warm. 

[coombs]

Also you have to consider ie your 412 7xgreat grandparents for example and their brothers and sisters which could mount up to a few thousand in total for that generation. Then that itself doubles as you go back. I think we probably all link in somewhere as there was not enough people to go round when you go back in time say 20 generations or more.

They estimate you have about 1000, 000, 000 28 time great grandparents. So say about from 700 to 100 years ago you reach 28 generations. Back then there was not enough people for everyone to have that number of 28 times great grandparents. Unless you want to get down the record office and find out 

[Andy_Keogh]

I've received a fair amount of requests on my comment so here we go - I don't know yet if there is a maximum length for posts so I may have to spread this out.

6,805,700,000
Estimated Current World Population 2010

How Many Ancestors Do We Have?

The usual estimate is based upon a simple progression

SELF
2 PARENTS
4 GRANDPARENTS
8 GREAT-GRANDPARENTS
16 GREAT-GREAT-GRANDPARENTS
32 GREAT-GREAT-GREAT-GRANDPARENTS
64 GREAT-GREAT-GREAT-GREAT-GRANDPARENTS
128 GREAT-GREAT-GREAT-GREAT-GREAT-GRANDPARENTS
256 GREAT-GREAT-GREAT-GREAT-GREAT-GREAT-GRANDPARENT
512 GREAT-GREAT-GREAT-GREAT-GREAT-GREAT-GREAT-GRANDPARENTS
1024 GREAT-GREAT-GREAT-GREAT-GREAT-GREAT-GREAT-GREAT-GRANDPARENTS

Predictably, this is called the “Pyramid Model”

However – we have a problem!

Let’s continue a wee bit:
Gen. 12:        2048 – abt. 360 years ago (+/- 70)   
Gen. 13:        4096 – abt. 390 years ago (+/- 70)   
Gen. 14:        8192 – abt. 420 years ago (+/- 70)
Gen. 15:      16384 – abt. 450 years ago (+/- 70)    
Gen. 16:      32768 – abt. 480 years ago (+/- 70)    
Gen. 17:      65536 – abt. 510 years ago (+/- 70)
Gen. 18:    131072 – abt. 540 years ago (+/- 70)
Gen. 19:    262144 – abt. 570 years ago (+/- 70)
Gen. 20:    524288 – abt. 600 years ago (+/- 70)

See where we’re going yet?

6,805,700,000
Estimated World Population 2010

Generation 30 using the Pyramid
WE SHOULD HAVE
536,870,912 ancestors about 900 years ago!

4 Generations later about 1020 years ago
8,589,934,592

40 generations back at 30 years per generation about 1200 years ago

2,199,023,255,552

40 generations back at 30 years per generation, about 1200 years ago

2,199,023,255,552

THAT’S 2.2 TRILLION

Official estimate of total World population (ever to have lived)
About 106,000,000,000
JUST OVER 100 BILLION

We can’t have more ancestors than available people who have EVER lived.

I Think I've attached a graphic showing population data - so I'll continue.

So, depending on the years defining a “generation” at about 1200AD, using 30 years per generation, your “ancestors” surpass available people.
At 20 years per generation you are related to everyone before about 1500AD !

HOW CAN THIS BE?

IT CAN’T !!!!!

The Pyramid Theory assumes that no relations EVER married

This is impossible because the number of ancestors can never be more than the total population at a given time

Relations did marry, perhaps not in an Egyptian, Roman or Royal way, but subtly

The actual model we have to use is a “Diamond Model”

SELF
2 PARENTS
4 GRANDPARENTS
8 GREAT-GRANDPARENTS
16 GREAT-GREAT-GRANDPARENTS
32 GREAT-GREAT-GREAT-GRANDPARENTS
64 GREAT-GREAT-GREAT-GREAT-GRANDPARENTS
128 GREAT-GREAT-GREAT-GREAT-GREAT-GRANDPARENTS
256 GREAT-GREAT-GREAT-GREAT-GREAT-GREAT-GRANDPARENT
512 GREAT-GREAT-GREAT-GREAT-GREAT-GREAT-GREAT-GRANDPARENTS
1024 GREAT-GREAT-GREAT-GREAT-GREAT-GREAT-GREAT-GREAT-GRANDPARENTS
x G-G-GREAT-GREAT-GREAT-GREAT-GREAT-GREAT-GREAT-GRANDPARENTS
x G-G-G-G-G-GREAT-GREAT-GREAT-GREAT-GREAT-GRANDPARENTS
x G-G-G-G-G-G-G-G-GREAT-GREAT-GREAT-GRANDPARENTS
x-G-G-G-G-G-G-G-G-G-G-G-GREAT-GRANDPARENTS

This can be displayed in a lateral branch of my own “Tree” from quite recently (second attachment)

But much more radically in the family tree of King Charles II of Spain (it's famous and you can look that up yourselves)

His Christmas and birthday lists must have been a nightmare!

Perhaps fortunately, a limited gene pool caused him to be too mad to worry!

If first cousins marry, any children lose 2 shared Great-grandparents, 4 shared Great-Great-Grandparents Etc.

If second cousins marry, any children will lose 2 shared Great-Great-Great-grandparents, 4 shared Great-Great-Great-Great Grandparents Etc.

This is called Pedigree Collapse

Charles’ great-great-great or (add-great-great, depending along which lineage one counts) Grandmother, was two of Charles' 16 great-great-great-grandmothers, six of his 32 great-great-great-great-grandmothers, and six of his 64 great-great-great-great-great-grandmothers.

In fact out of a possible 64 individuals Charles had 12 individual 4x great-grandparents

Only TWO in the “Direct” paternal line out of a possible 32!!!!!

Humans, as we would recognize them today, appeared about 50,000 years ago. But some Human DNA may be in existence from as early as 250,000 years ago.

Mitochondrial Eve about 140,000 years ago

Y-chromosomal Adam about 60,000 years ago

Don't know how to add another file so we'll break off here and start on a new thread

[Andy_Keogh]

Part 2

Graphic 3 is now, hopefully attached

Recent developments in DNA sourcing show that all living European females can be directly linked to 10 or, perhaps, 12 individual women about 150,000 years ago. These weren’t the only European females but are the only ones for whom DNA “Lives On”

Worldwide, only 36 “Clan Mothers” have been identified

Every woman living is related, way back, to one of these 36

Of course, every man is too

Unfortunately male DNA can’t be traced back in the same way so “Clan Fathers” may never be found

All factors mean that we have a lot fewer ancestors than most people assume. In a fairly closed community, probably about 6.8% of the total population today. Under 500,000 individuals for the whole of Britain.

Although we have far fewer ancestors than most people think, perhaps as few as 500,000 or so. Just imagine any ONE of them falling down a well, succumbing to any of the many plagues, being killed in a war or tribal battle, getting trampled by a woolly mammoth or even if a former great-great-grandmother had a “Headache” precluding the birth of a great-grandparent

YOU COULDN’T BE READING THIS!

Indeed! The fact that you ARE here is: HARDLY HUMANLY POSSIBLE!

[coombs]

Interesting about how many people have ever lived. I read it was around 100'000'000'000. For example if I met someone from Poland we could share a common ancestor about 1000 years back.

[Nick29]

At 20 years per generation you are related to everyone before about 1500AD !

Not necessarily.   As already discussed) many communities (like those in the UK Fens) were cut off much of the time, so 'local' inbreeding was more rife than the 'norm' in these places.  Would I be related to everyone in Africa before 1500AD ?   Nahh, sorry, I don't buy it !

And of course, we've left out one little morsel which upsets the apple cart a little - those whose fathers aren't who they think they are ! Some think that as many as 60% of children born both now and in years gone by may not have the genetic father that they think they have.  Now that's taking interbreeding to a whole new level ! 

[Pejic]

"Related to" is not the same as "Descended from", all it needs is for one relation of one of your ancestors to have had a relationship with one relation of one native of Africa and voila! you are related to everyone in Africa.

It is like the "5 handshakes" thing where everyone is that close to meeting everyone in the world (and I didn't believe that until I used my Family tree software to prove it in my case).

Also, the 60% is on the high side - I have seen 10% quoted though - which took the edge off much of my research, because after 10 generations there is a fair chance you are not tracing your true family, though by Andy_Keogh's argument it is probably an ancestor anyway!

[Guy Etchells]

I have not seen any proof yet.
All that has been shown is a theory based on as the population reference bureau admits a "guesstimate used to disprove a factoid.
Not very convincing as proof.

It is a mathematical projection that has no comparison to real life.

In a similar way to the pundits for DNA have advanced theories from tiny samples which they extrapolate. This extrapolation is then put forward as a theory.
The theory may be changed or amended to fit the facts as they emerge.

But to get back to the question of how many people have ever lived on earth; Carl Huab guessed that figure to prove that a factoid that had been floating around for years was wrong.
The factoid stated that in numeric terms three-quarters of all people who ever lived on earth were alive today.
Now to prove the factoid was wrong he did not have to show how many people ever lived on earth but only had to show that more than one quarter of the present world population had lived in previous times.

Cheers
Guy

[coombs]

1500 AD is only 512 years ago so there can be no way we are all related to everyone from exactly before that date.