Longton (Staffs) Cemetery - COLLIER

[MargP]

Hi

I would not base your research on stories that have been handed down, as I have found out over the last 10 years of researching, they become distorted over the years.

Margp

[keithwfhc]

I agree entirely.  The story is doubtless handed down, but it is relatively recent and so cannot have been handed down many times.  You will also find it on the website of the Longton Spiritualist Church and is referred to in the book "On the Side of Angels" by Gordon Higginson, who was the son of Fanny Collier the younger and a spiritualist.  The point is that it seems to be an important story in the history of spiritualism, yet has clearly not been properly checked against verifiable facts.  If this story turns out to be unverifiable, what credence can be given to other accounts of spiritualist events ?

[CaroleW]

Gordon Higginson will have heard the story from his mother - Fanny jnr so in effect it was first hand info.

Fanny allegedly saw her mother only an hour prior to her death so she was clearly close at hand at her aunts house and therefore still in Staffs.

Fanny rushed home - again - no suggestion that her mother died anywhere other than at home in Staffs

I am assuming that there is no mention of the nature of Fanny's death - natural causes or an accident?
 

[MargP]

Hi Keith

If you don't get a result from your other enquiries that are pending, I would send for the DC in Worcester, it may be a long shot, but death's are registered in the district where they died and she may have been buried there too, as you say they were not a rich family and may not have been able to have her transported back to Longton, I would also check if the extended family had any connections with Worcester  she may have been visiting a family member.

Another thought, what would you do if did not know the story about Fanny, having said all that I am still searching for my grandmother DC and burial record 10 YEARS ON so I know how frustrating it is.

Good Luck Margp

[CaroleW]

Marg is right.  The 1901 has no Fanny Collier entry for Worcester and with the proximity of the 2 counties - it will either solve the mystery or leave you £9.25 out of pocket but I agree it's the only possibility

[Zen rabbit]

I am within a cycle ride of Stoke archives so if I get chance I will see if there is anything for Longton burials. By way of example I recently found an ancestor buried in 1844 there. She was not found on a BMD search initially but there she was in the burials. I did another search and found her in BMD, they had missed a letter out of the name (even though it was quite plain on the printed list) so it is always possible that a miss transcribed entry is the problem. Given that by your account she must have died within that 10 year period and no death pops up on BMD then a mis-transcribed recod is quite possible. Difficulty will be finding it.

[Zen rabbit]

Okay dokey I have gone through all the death indexes for 1903 - 1905 and can not find a Fanny, Frances or Francis Collier or any possible derivations of in the listings. If it is any help the Fanny Collier in Worcester was aged 41.

[keithwfhc]

Hi Zen Rabbit, CaroleW & Margp,
Thanks for the kind offer, Zen Rabbit, but I have discovered that there is a £25 fee for searching the Longton Cemetery burials.  As this is not my personal genealogy, I shall not be pursuing that line of enquiry.

In reply to CaroleW, one version of the story says that Fanny had a heart attack, but I suspect that this is mere embroidery of the original version.

In reply to Margp, the story is based on Longton and Fanny rushed home (presumably on foot).  The Worcester RD death registration is a non-starter in my view.  Anyway, Fanny would have been 39 in October 1905, not 41.  A difference of two years for a woman approaching 40 would normally be thought significant if the age was being raised, rather than lowered !

My theory is that Fanny the elder did not die at the stated time, but left her husband and the whole episode of the seance was a pre-arranged cover-up to avoid scandal and provide "evidence" to Fanny the younger, of her mother's "death".

This is probably the last post, so thank you all for your contributions.

[MargP]

Hi

Have you any evidence to support your theory

I would not put credence on the Date of Birth on the death records,  the information is only as good as the informants knowledge, my grandfather death record was out by 7 years