Catholic registrations

[MarriedWithChildre]

I'm new to this forum so please let me know if this is in the wrong place.  I have been trying to trace a Catholic branch of my family.  I have a great great grandfather who has become a brick wall.  I know his date of birth, date of death and all the census details for every census except 1841, plus I can't find his birth details in the on-line registry.  Were Catholic births not registered centrally?  He was born in 1825.  He was apparently quite prominent in the Catholic community in Manchester, leading the Wakes Walks every year until his death.  Where can I find Catholic birth (and marriage) details?

[MarriedWithChildre]

Can't seem to edit my post - I meant Whit Walks!

[avm228]

Hi - his 1825 birth will not have been registered because civil registration in England & Wales did not begin until 1837. 

There may well have been a Catholic baptism, but very few Catholic registers have been made available online (Liverpool being a recent and notable exception).

However, his marriage (if there was one in England & Wales) will have been registered under the civil registration system as given his age it must have taken place after the commencement of civil registration. Again if it was a Catholic religious ceremony there will be a separate record of that but it will not give you any different information than the civil registration will.

What was his name and whom did he marry? Was he born in Manchester, according to later records?

This site may be of interest: http://www.catholic-history.org.uk/cfhs

[MarriedWithChildre]

Thanks for your reply.  His name was William Baker.  He was born on 14th May 1825 in Manchester (don't know which part) and married Catherine Jackson who was born 30th May 1830 in Newton Heath.  He died in 1873, and apparently was the oldest cotton waste dealer in Manchester when he died.  He used to lead the Whit Walks from St Chads, Cheetham Hill.  I've searched for their marriage, but can't see it on-line.

[avm228]

I see that William and Catherine appear together for the first time in 1861 aged 36 and 32, the oldest child with them being 3 yr old Henry.  Have you considered that one or both of them might have been married before?

There is for example this marriage:

Marriage, Mar qtr 1857

William BAKER
Catherine HARRISON [possibly a previous married name?]

Manchester 8d 499

LancashireBMD shows against this marriage the annotation "Manchester Register Office or Registrar Attended" which is consistent with a Catholic marriage in that a Catholic priest was not authorised to conduct the civil registration of the marriage so a civil registrar had to attend in order to deal with that aspect.

www.lancashirebmd.org.uk

[avm228]

In fact Catherine may have been officially HARRISON all along, with JACKSON possibly a stepfather's name?

1841 census: HO107/584 bk 4 f18 p29

Oldham Road, Newton, Manchester

Richard JACKSON 35 Shoe M
Mary Ann do 35 Shoe B
John do 9 months
Richard do 5
Mary Ann do 5
Joshua HARRISON 15 Clogger
Catharine HARRISON 10 Silk winder

all born in Lancashire

[avm228]

1851 census: HO107 piece 2231 folio 149-150 pages 1-2

3 Charlsworth Buildings, Oldham Road, Newton

Richard JACKSON Head Mar 46 Cordwainer Lancs Lancaster
Mary Ann do Wife Mar 48? Lancs Sand____?
Richard do Son Unm 15 Winder in dye works Newton
Mary Ann do Daur 12 Silk winder Newton
John do Son 10 Scholar Newton
Elizabeth E do Daur 8 Newton
Alice Jane do Daur 5 Newton 

4 Charlsworth Buildings, Oldham Road, Newton

Stephen PEDDER Head Mar 55 Chelsea Pensioner Lancs Churchtown
Mary do Wife Mar 69? Lancs Oldham
Mary do Daur Unm 22 Silk winder Lancs Churchtown
John do Grandson 2 Lancs Eccles
Joseph HARRISON Grandson Unm 17 Clogger Lancs Newton
Catherine HARRISON Granddaur Unm 22 Weaver Lancs Newton

[MarriedWithChildre]

In fact Catherine may have been officially HARRISON all along, with JACKSON possibly a stepfather's name?

1841 census: HO107/584 bk 4 f18 p29

Oldham Road, Newton, Manchester

Richard JACKSON 35 Shoe M
Mary Ann do 35 Shoe B
John do 9 months
Richard do 5
Mary Ann do 5
Joshua HARRISON 15 Clogger
Catharine HARRISON 10 Silk winder

all born in Lancashire

Very interesting.  I know that in one of the later censuses she had her father living with her, and he was listed as Richard Jackson and he was a shoemaker and would have been born in about 1807, so this could be right.  She had two younger sisters, Ellen who was 14 years younger and Elizabeth who was 17 years younger (they both at different times worked as domestic servants, presumably for Catherine as they lived in her house).  Thanks very much for that, you're a star - I'm going to print it off so I can peruse all this information at leisure. 

[davidrigg3]

Members of the Irish Ancestry Branch of Manchester & Lancashire FHS have transcribed details of baptisms, marriages and burials at several Manchester RC churches. MLFHS make them available to purchase on CD. See the bottom of this page on their bookshop site, http://www.rootschat.com/links/0kfp/ and the top of the next.

If you have lots of RC ancestors in Manchester it may be worth considering a purchase.

On the MLFHS membership site http://mlfhs.org.uk/index.php if you go to Online data at the top and then click on the Public Data link, you will see another link for their Catholic Register index. This gives you the opportunity to search the index for a name to find out if that name appears in the records that they have. It will not give you all the details, but will tell you if the name is there or not, and presumably whether it is worth purchasing the relevant CD.

I have searched for surname Baker baptism 1825 +/- 10, the only Williams came up as 1828 and 1829, both Manchester, St. Mary, Mulberry Street.

A search for surname Harrison baptism 1830 +/- 10 give 1 Catherine 1828, Manchester, St. Mary, Mulberry Street.  The same search for surname Jackson does not find a Catherine.

Searching for the marriage 1860+/- 10 does not give an appropriate result.