Newell's in Christchurch North

[Beg Clonrode...]

The headstones at Oxford are not online, I have photgraphed the cemetery.

Hello Leandra...

Thanks for that.

I did wonder but should have realized :-)

All the best
Beg

[Beg Clonrode...]

Hello Christopher...

EDIT: More than likely a red herring sorry. See below. But I'll leave up the original post

I'm assuming that the following LDS link relates to the correct Ellen/Helen/Nellie CRAIG
If I'm wrong just ignore the rest of the post :-)

LDS - 1890 Birth of Ellen CRAIG
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FBD6-56R

But I think I'm right because you said that Ellen and James were twins and the following link for James CRAIG has the same Vol/Page number as the previous link

LDS - 1890 Birth of James CRAIG
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FBD6-56Y


----------------------------------------

EDIT: This next bit is the red herring bit...

Have you eliminated the following 1906 marriage of Ellen CRAIG registered in Larne.

Name - Ellen CRAIG
Record Type - Marriages
Registration District - Larne
Year/quarter - Jan to Mar 1906
Volume No. - 1
Page No. - 681

LDS - 1906 Marriage of Ellen CRAIG
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FYDS-724

I am a bit wary as she would have just turned 15. But as Ellen is no longer listed with her parents and sibling in the 1911 census it sort of makes sense to look at Larne marriages from 1904-ish to 1912. And this is the only one which sticks out.

By matching the above register details on LDS it looks like the only names on Page 681 of Volume 1 are James BALMER, Robert IRVINE and Agnes DUNLOP. No sign of a Francis NEWELL.

But this 1906 Larne marriage shouldn't be eliminated until you sight the register entry. (I think a photocopy of the entry costs about €4.00. I've not dealt with the Irish GRO but I'm sure the Irish rootschat board can advise.)

You may think it's a waste of €4.00 when the groom is more likely than not to be either James BALMER or Robert IRVINE. But if the bride's parents are James and Mary and the bride's age is 16-ish then you can add an Ellen BALMER/IRVINE to the mix.


LDS - 1906 Marriage of James BALMER
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FYDS-G4W

LDS - 1906 Marriage of Robert IRVINE
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FYD9-Z2S

LDS - 1906 Marriage of Agnes DUNLOP
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FYDS-TJF

1901 census of Ireland
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Antrim/Ardclinis/Highlandstown/993367/

1911 census of Ireland
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Antrim/Ardclinis/Highlandtown/193484/


EDIT...a few days later :-)

The 1911 census has a Robert and Ellen IRVINE who have been married for 5 years and live in Ballyvaddy, Antrim. This might be the Ballyvaddy a dozen or so miles north of Larne, so well within the Larne registration district.

More than likely this is the couple who married in 1906. And as the age of this Ellen is 28 it's looks as though the 1906 marriage is another red herring

1911 census - Robert and Ellen CRAIG (married 5 years - tick "Show All Information" box)
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Antrim/Glencloy/Ballyvaddy/194234/


And this is more likely than not the other couple on page 681 of the marriage register...

1911 census - James and Agnes BALMER (married 5 years)
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Antrim/Glenarm/Mark_Street/194041/


Regards
Beg

[Skybluechris]

Hello All

Once again, thanks for checking into this.  I don't know how much further on I am.  I've compared the various NZ Electoral Roll entries and given that Nellie is later shown as Helen, when I know she should definitely be an Ellen I'm wondering if I've got the wrong folks.

The later Roll entries after 1946 don't show Nellie with Frank and once Frank is stated as retired he appears to have remarried.  That said, his retirement dates (some time between 1949 and 1954) would put him in the correct age bracket.

I still can't find Nellie in the 1911 Ireland Census and she appears with Frank in the 1914 Roll.  As he's not with Nelly in the 1911 Roll one may conclude that the married in NZ sometime between 1911 and 1914.

So I guess I'll have to follow-up Lu's initial posting for the 1973 probate, at least to eliminate the Nellie /Frank Electoral Roll entries if nothing else.

Lu's question about how we know it was Canterbury opens another can of worms.  The short answer is we don't.  The longer answer is, we know it was NZ and my sister recalled there being correspondence from Canterbury that has since disappeared.

I should have realised earlier, but the one definite piece of information I have on Nellie (properly Ellen) is that she was born on 5 Oct 1890.  Maybe that will help locate her death.  So if someone can find out the age of any Ellen Newell that dies in Canterbury between 1928 and 1946 that may help.

All the best
Christopher

[Suzy W]

Not sure if this is her, age is out by five years, worth a little look.  Helen King Newell, there are a few more Newell's on this site
And Waimakariri is part of Canterbury.

http://www.waimakariri.govt.nz/services/cemeteries/cemetery-search-detail.aspx?ID=OOX03070010

Suzy W

[Beg Clonrode...]

Not sure if this is her, age is out by five years, worth a little look.  Helen King Newell, there are a few more Newell's on this site And Waimakariri is part of Canterbury.

Suzy W

Hello Suzy,

I think Lucy has already eliminated this Helen King NEWELL earlier in the thread.

Regards
Beg

[Beg Clonrode...]

So I guess I'll have to follow-up Lu's initial posting for the 1973 probate

Hello Christopher...

Just in case you don't know....you can always start a new thread asking for a "probate look-up" on your behalf at the Christchurch Archives.

Someone visiting the Archives for their own research will ask, on your behalf, to view the probate for Frank NEWELL. He or she will then take photos of the probate and email the photos to you. It saves you from having to pay for Archives staff to copy the probate and send it to you as there is no charge when a probate is viewed on-site.

But first off you have to email Christchurch Archives and ask if the probate is kept on-site or off-site. Here is the email address for Christchurch Archives and a bit more info on the situation post-earthquake.

http://www.archway.archives.govt.nz/

If the probate is kept off-site Chch Archives will let you know when it can be accessed.

If the probate is kept on-site you can then start a new thread for a Christchurch Archives look-up.

Here's an example of a Christchurch look-up request...

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,570532.0.html


You may have to wait a week or three for a rootschatter to visit Chch Archives but it will save you $25-ish

Regards
Beg

[newbe_nz]

Hi There,

I have sent archives in Christchurch a request for Francis NEWELL's probate. I will be viewing it Friday this week if it is available to view

Cheers
Newbe

[newbe_nz]

Hi There,

I have photos of Francis NEWELL'S probate. If you care to PM me your email address I can send copies to you.

Regards
Newbe

[Skybluechris]

Hello All

Firstly a big thank you to everyone who has responded, especially leandra for visiting the cemetery, Beg Clonrode for all the digging and to newbe_nz for finding the probate in the archives and being kind enough to photograph it.

The probate tied all the names of the children mentioned above together.  It also made perfect sense of Helen King Radcliffe's death in 1937 and Francis' subsequent remarriage to Ruby Alice.  Hence I can only conclude that this particular Mr Newell is not the one that married my great aunt Nellie since the Helen King Radcliffe name and the full names of the children as shown in the will nail it.

The bit that still niggles is that Nellie/Ellen/Helen isn't listed with Francis Newell in the 1911 Electoral Roll, despite being married in 1908.  She is listed in the 1914 Roll though.

Hopefully this thread will be of use to a fellow Newell researcher later on.  As for my great aunt Nellie and her Craig siblings, I'll have to think of a new search strategy.

Should I crack the Nellie/Newell/New Zealand part I will needless to say post the results back here to save anyone else's confusion.

Thanks once again all
Christopher