The James McKnight Conundrum

[Southpaw]

There are records of two people named James McKnight having been born in Moffat, Dumfriesshire around 1800.  These James McKnights were born respectively to John McKnight and Mary Johnston, and Thomas McKnight and Janet Johnston. 

Various researchers have claimed that James McKnight from Moffat is their ancestor. These two James McKnights have apparently married Mary Young, Jane Neilson, Sarah Wallace and Mary Bell.

The James McKnights could have married twice or one perhaps married three times.  It could be that there were more James McKnights born in Moffat around this time.  Or, are some researchers making a mistake, and claiming the wrong James McKnight.

My own interest is the James McKnight who married or was the partner of Mary Bell.

Is anyone out their researching this family?

I know of a lady from Hampshire who has done excellent work with this family.  Also a gentleman from Lanark.

Is there anyone else out there ?

[Maggie1895]

Southpaw, this one sounds fun!  I had, before I managed to untangle them,  two Margaret Mansells who were first cousins born 4 months apart in the same town so you have my sympathy.

When did 'your' James McKight die?   I presume the marriages took place prior to 1855 but if he lived to 55 or over then his death certificate should show his father's name, which would at least clarify which couple were his parents.

That said you may already have all this, and just be looking for others researching him which I'm not, but if you are still trying to untangle hopefully Scotland's People and the death certificate could help?

[Maggie1895]

p.s. again you may already have all of this, but what about the census from 1841 on, and the births for children of 'your' James and Mary Bell?   Can you let us know the details of what you already have confirmed and what you are looking to establish?   

If all you are looking to do is to link up with other relatives, then ignore this

[Southpaw]

Maggie, thanks for taking an interest.

I cannot find his death.  I have found Mary Bell in the 1841 Census.  Her son James McKnight (yip another one) is staying with another family.  Staying with Mary Bell is a girl who would become her son’s wife.

Mary is using her maiden name in the Census.  Would this indicate that she never married?  That’s a possibility.

Another researcher has indicated that James married another woman, and had a large family with her.  In this large family there is no “James.”   This might indicate that he already had a son called James ie the one he had with Mary Bell.  Or, he could have had a son called James who died.

The James who had the large family appears in Lanark, and has a different occupation.  The dates tie up, but there is no factual evidence.

Ultimately, I’m trying to establish if the James McKnight who married (or was the partner of) Mary Bell was one of the McKnight’s born in Moffat around 1800.

[Maggie1895]

Well, obviously the plot thickens!

The fact that Mary Bell uses her own name in the 1841 census may indicate they didn't marry, but could equally indicate that she is a widow.   Women in Scotland don't necessarily use their husband's names, some not at all, some only during the time of the marriage and revert to 'themselves' on widowhood.

You say that her son Jame McKnight is staying with another family.   What can you tell us about him?  Marriage / death date, approx birth date etc.   I know you will have all of this already, but for anyone coming in at this point trying to help we may need to come forward a bit in order to work backwards (if that makes sense)

What about Mary / Jamesjnr  in the 1851 census on?    Mary's death certificate may well give details of her marriages, no guarantees but certainly my own gr.gr.grandmother's gave the names of both her husbands.

p.s. can you give me a reference or more detail of Mary, where she is, approx age etc,  in 1841?  I just took a look and the list is about a page long   

[Maggie1895]

I've found a 24 year old James McKnight, General Labourer, in Moffat in the 1851 census.   Married to Jessie, with 3 children, Angus Welsh, James (both age 3) and Edward (1).
Is he the son of Mary Bell?

[Southpaw]

I can't find Mary's death.

Her son, James, died in 1886 in Glasgow, aged 59.  He was married to Jessie Lachlan.  She was staying with Mary Bell in the 1841 Census.  Mary was 25 at that time and Jessie was 12.  There was also a 4 month old baby staying with them - John McGregor.  The McGregor name does not appear in my family.

The James, who died in Glasgow, was 21 at the time of the 1841 census.  He was living with the Kennedy family.  The householder was Jacob Kennedy.  James called one of his sons Jacob ( my great grandfather.)

[Southpaw]

I've found a 24 year old James McKnight, General Labourer, in Moffat in the 1851 census.   Married to Jessie, with 3 children, Angus Welsh, James (both age 3) and Edward (1).
Is he the son of Mary Bell?

Yes, that's him.  I've got all the information forward of that date.  It's going backwards that's the problem.

[Maggie1895]

Great, now I know which James the son is - I've found James and Jessie in 1861 in Lanarkshire, whilst another James of approx the same age is still in Dumfriesshire married to a Helen.

At least now I know it's the James and Jessie line - not sure if this is any help as I'm moving forward rather than back but at least I know now which one he is   Jacob was 8 in 1861, the Angus / James couple appear to be 15 and 13 rather than twins as indicated in 1841, and poor little Edward presumably died somewhere between 51 and 61 as there is a new Edward age 7 months.