Ladywell and Brockley Cemetery Headstone Photo Request - Rangecroft

[Chris Doran]

3 people in one private grave isn't unusual. Perhaps you have more space to spread out in Australia! If the number exceeds 6, then it's either a posh vault for a dynasty or (more likely) a common grave, where I've seen up to 50 burials.

The problem here, though, is the plot number. Present numbers at HG are 1 or 2 letters for the section and a number for the grave. I assume /Con/ means Consecrated, i.e. Church of England rather than Roman Catholic or Nonconformist, so perhaps it's near the Anglican chapel. Either there's another column in the register that hasn't been transcribed, or the section naming was different in earlier times. I suspect the latter, having been defeated before by some strange plot specifications at HG. Reading between the lines of other posts, I think someone here has a deceasedonline sub and can look around the register pages and maybe gain some clues from other burials. Otherwise, Phil is a lot closer than me so I'll hand it over to him to look around or ask in the office.

[forester]

I agree Chris, the grave reference is spurious. I have responded to a PM from Debra earlier today. Hopefully she has a copy of the burial register, as deceased online had some large transcription errors there a few years ago, when I had a subscription. An 1885 burial will be in the old section. 2091 seems a high number for a grave in HG and may be the register entry number. I did have a wander around yesterday, just on the off chance, but will now wait for Debra's response.

Sandie,
I have found the remaining traces of your Dowell grave and will post later this evening, if I get a chance. Are Fred, Sarah Ann (d. 1932) and John Dowell any of yours?

Phil

[sandiep]

look forward to seeing what you have found forester

you asked about plot nos on the Frances Newman  plot X No 184

on Sarah Jupp only other bit apart from 2019 is it says third plot purchased grave reopened

both these are Hither Green

was there any others?

the other 3 dowels you asked about are not mine  thanks anyway

[forester]

Hello Sandie,

I found the grave but it does not have a headstone and is sunk into the grass and bramble stalks. The front kerb has been laid on the top and after a bit of careful work, I found an engraved inscription to George on it. I found the inscription to Annie on the right hand kerb. Unfortunately I didn't have any water to wash them off. I have sorted out the various photos and will be in touch.

Plot X at Hither Green (Frances Newman) is adjacent to Verdant Lane and may be a grave that contains a number of civilian war casualties.

The Sarah Jupp grave reference remains a mystery.

Phil

[Chris Doran]

Plot X at Hither Green (Frances Newman) is adjacent to Verdant Lane and may be a grave that contains a number of civilian war casualties.

I've been working along the same line of thought as Phil. Yes, there are a number of WW2 bombing casualties along the edge by the railings, though none with Frances according to a list I have. The nearest marked one is Albert Bridges at No 188, so if I have the numbering direction correct, 184 should be 4 graves to its right. I would normally count 8 gentle paces, but common graves could be wider. There are a number of other similar stones along that edge. I've probably photographed them all. Given the names of the 33 people with Frances, one of them might give the exact spot. But be warned: miniature stones like this get moved around whilst cutting the grass, and even Bridges' one may be in the wrong place.

At No 142a is a Frederick Newman. Any relation? There's a bio at that page. Despite the common graves part of Section X being largely devoid of gravestones, the position of his grave can also be estimated and when I can find time between reading Rootschat postings, I may upload a photo.

[forester]

I have just downloaded the Civilian casualty list for Lewisham. There are none shown between 23rd March and 16th June 1944.

Phil

[sandiep]

Thanks for my photos  Phil
The fraces newman don't know if it helps but frances was in lambeth hospital on death also  33 people on burial info  it also gives both spellings of frances Francis  on record
Sandie

[forester]

Having now seen a copy of the burial register for Sarah Jupp, it looks like the original numbering system at Hither Green Cemetery was significantly different in 1885 to that adopted some time later.

The layout probably didn't change - the earliest map I have is 1896 and it is the same as the current layout. However, the plots appear to be split into 1st, 2nd and 3rd Grounds. The 3rd Ground included unconsecrated burials and therefore, presumably non-conformist burials. There are two chapels on the site to reflect these needs. The plots were later designated A to F and the graves sequentially numbered in each plot.

The Jupp grave (No. 2019), is a purchased, consecrated grave in the 3rd Ground.

As we don't know if the grave had a headstone, kerb, etc. it looks like the services of Lewisham Bereavement Services will be required to provide some location details.

Phil

[Romilly]

Many Thanks All.

I don't know if Frederick Newman was any relation to my GreatGrandmother Frances Newman or not. Her husband Thomas Louis Newman Died in 1917 at 5 Mount Pleasant Cottage, Loampit Vale, Lewisham, and he might be Buried there. Also their twin babies, Susan and Rose might be there?

I was also wondering if any of the victims of the Catford school bombing might be there too?

Romilly.