Tranent Churchyard

[Poppy10]

Templar75

Thanks for a bit more logic to go on Archie.  I spent three hours yesterday trying to find the Gavines around the Mill area you gave me.  I found on the 1841 an Isabella Gavine aged 40 born in Angus, Dundee as head of household with twins John and Hellen aged 15 and another son William.  Is it a possibility my Isabella's father was dead when she married I wonder.  I'm probably clutching at straws !  I would have thought they would have put deceased in the register.
Cheers
Poppy10

[Templar75]

Hi Poppy 10,

                   I notice you traced a girl in Angus, your ancestor states she was born in Tranent and married there, I found an Isabela Smith who died in Prestonpans 1850 unfortunately it is not her as she was aged 60, Prestonpans is just down the road from Tranent.

I found her marriage on Scotlands People, it seems it was recorded not only in Tranent but also Dunse, the death of Isabella is really hard to find, I gave the option of her living till 100 but the only one to show up was above.

I just wonder if she left home and let William bring up the kids because on the Census returns he is not down as a widower.

Do you live in Scotland.

Cheers.

Archie.

[Poppy10]

Templar75

No Archie, I live in Nottinghamshire and am not likely to get to Scotland to do hands-on research unfortunately.
On my look-ups of the censuses which aren't images it doesn't state the marriage status so it didn't occur to me that William wasn't a widower in 1971, I just assumed wife Isabella had died, and in Tranent.

When I found the Isabella born in Angus about 1801 I just thought this might be the mother of Isabella born about 1821, wife of William.  Then they too had an Isabella born 1843 my gt gt grandmother who on her death cert had the middle name Gavine.  This Gavine was handed down as the middle name of my mother.  So you can see how I am clutching at straws 

Thanks for your patience 
Poppy10

[Templar75]

Hi Poppy 10,

                   I downloaded what I thought was your William Smith going roughly by the age but all I got was a Farmer wrong man, I think there could be a difference in the age between what he gave in the Census and exact date of birth.

I downloaded their marriage from Scotlands People ( Attached ) and it states her father was a Miller so whether he was in charge or not I have no idea, as you said there is not much to go on, It seems that perhaps he was an Orphan with no parents mentioned.

For Isabella to put down her fathers trade could mean he was probably still alive and her mother is dead but how did she not know his first name, I can see if it was a grandchild but not the child, another hunch is she may have been in care with someone and hardly knew her father.

Cheers.

Archie.

[Poppy10]

Hello Archie
I've had a summer break and have just looked at my SMITH/GAVINE file once again.  I sent for Isabella SMITH's death certificate to trace the elusive father and I have now got details as follows:-  Isabella died on the 23rd May 1865 but I can't make out the place.  It looks like  sh Pill Tranent.  She died of phthisis (tb) so I wondered if it was a sanatorium or the like.  It says she was 46 yrs and William was present at death.  So I think she must be buried somewhere in Tranent.
The great news is that her father was Robert GAVINE deceased, a Journeyman Miller so that gives reason to his elusiveness !!  and her mother was Catherine GAVINE nee RENTON.

Previously you said you found a William SMITH born 13 Feb 1816, ch 17 Mar 1816 at Tranent with parents Adam and Margaret (and these are names of William's children too) so you think this is my William.  I think you must be right and I have been thinking his parents were a John and Elizabeth SMITH of Liberton so now I have got to start again on the SMITHs.  So thank you Archie for your time and patience with me 
Poppy 10

[Templar75]

Hi Poppy10,

                      is it possible please to let me see the death Cert for Isabella and we can see if I can make out where she died.

Regards.

Archie.

[Poppy10]

I haven't a clue how to do that Archie.  If I get a visit from my son I'll see if he can do it for me.

Poppy10

[Templar75]

Hi Poppy10,

                    I think I found it please see photo and map attached, this was Schaws Hospital built in the 1700's formally known as Preston House which is no longer there, this became known as the former Schaws Hopital and was a school for the poor children in the area, as time moved on they started to bring in children who's parents could afford to pay for education.

Eventually the poor children were no longer accepted and it became fee paying only, Isabella probably worked there or even lived in the school may have been her residence but who knows.

 Previously you wrote " Previously you said you found a William SMITH born 13 Feb 1816, ch 17 Mar 1816 at Tranent with parents Adam and Margaret (and these are names of William's children too) so you think this is my William. ".
I would say yes as the naming tradition in Scotland seems to have been kept on by the family.

Regards.

Archie.

[Poppy10]

Hello Archie
I have managed to get a friend to make an extract copy of Isabella Smith's death cert, the bit that I can't interpret as to where she died in Tranent.  Do you still think it's Shaws Hospital.  I think the second word starts with a Pe and then possibly an apostrophe then ll.   See what you think.
The whole cert was too big it kept telling us.

Poppy10