Gertrude Ayton, actress of some renown?

[RedMystic]

Oh, one other tiny fact. I've discovered that Gertrude & Jack's son was officially named John Ayton Gordon Copland. By the time of his marriage announcement in 1941 he had dropped the name Ayton, so it is likely that the family estrangement we surmise occurred happened before then.

[mshrmh]

mshrmh, I seriously thinking of order that certificate the library suggested  for Gertrude. If you're correct & it includes wife of/widow of +  his occupation it may tell me which Harry Hanson she married. (It appears that the theatre Harry died in London in 1972; obit generously provided by Monica.)

I will let you know as other bits unfold.

Thanks for the update on your new find - she must have been a talented person.

I've checked the death certificates I have for females & they do all state wife or widow of.... (it was under occupation). There's a useful online guide to what you can expect from certificates in England & Wales (upto around 1970), compiled by a former registrar:
http://home.clara.net/dixons/Certificates/indexbd.htm

If you do go for the death certificate the base price is £9 from the local register office with possible extras for card payment & postage; from the GRO it's £9.25 including postage (I think that's the same for sending outside the UK, but am not sure). Both versions contain the same information - the local office holds the originals & some supply copies that are a type of photocopy so you can see original signatures. The GRO copies are literally that - compiled from copies submitted by the local office. More recent events differ as computers have changed things inevitably.

[RedMystic]

Hi all.

Here's a quick update.

The first certificate has arrived. Gertrude was definitely daughter of Christina - no father mentioned. That means that the 1901 census where she is living with her grandfather but shows up with Christina's husband's surname is a slight, though perhaps understandable, deviation from the truth.  (Christina & new husband are living in London in 1901.)

Her first marriage certificate to Jack indicates her grandfather (Christina's father) as Gertrude's "father".

I know.  It's nothing that answers any of the wishes we made a few days ago, but it does prove out that all of you put me on the right track. Thank you.

The search continues.

[MonicaL]

Good to have the first connections all confirmed, RM.

Spotted the death in Blackpool & Fylde in 1977 for a 73 yr old Harry Hanson and wondered whether this was 'the' Harry Hanson we have been looking for given we have Gertrude's death there in 1988.

Monica

[mshrmh]

Thanks RM - seems like so many she was "economical with the truth" when she got married, understandable at the time if misleading to later researchers.

IIRC somewhere on this thread there was a comment or question about why Blackpool. As RM's in Canada - there is a tradition in the UK of retiring to the seaside (healthy ozone or similar ideas). For people in the north-west of England this has often been to North Wales (Colwyn Bay, Rhyl etc) or to Southport or further north to the area around Blackpool - Lytham St Annes, Cleveleys etc outside the main holiday resort itself. I'm not sure what geographic area the registration district of Blackpool & Fylde covered, but may well include these areas.

[MonicaL]

I suppose also Gertrude will have been familiar with the general Blackpool town area given, you would think, she would have worked there many a time in its many theatres and halls. Coupled with her maternal Uncle James and his extended family being there too.

Lively entertaining area for her to retire to also!

Monica

[RedMystic]

I've not been able to do too much on this (other than receive the certificate) this week.  I'm on the road until Friday. Frustrating when life gets in the way of FH research.

Monica, great find on the other Harry Hansen - likely much more of a candidate for Gertrude than the one that died in London. When I get home I'll see if I can do some tracking on him. Did the death record you found for the "other Harry" 1977, by chance, indicate where he was born?

Another "stupid" question. Can one obtain a marriage record for a 1950 wedding?

mshrmh, TX for the lay of the land & the "retiring to the seaside" explanation.

I did find that Gertrude's uncle died in Blackpool, though that would have been quite a while before Gertrude moved there. (I don't have my notes with me at the hotel.) I'll do some checking to see if he had children as that may have been an attraction for her.

Gertrude had a half brother as well. Christina Ayton and William Jacob had a son in London: Ayton Jacob. I've not followed that branch; perhaps it might lead somewhere.

I've not heard anything from the actor's union other than to confirm that they got the request & would get to me shortly. My fingers are crossed that the request is sitting in someone's To-Do pile.

Cheers,

[RedMystic]

Hi all.

I found a tree that included Gertrude's mum, husband, their son (he's dead), his wife (if she's alive she's 100 yrs old) & children ..... Finally a lead ... I thought.

I wrote to the owner yesterday morning asking them if they knew anything about Christina's daughter, Gertrude. I explained the birth certificate & 1901 census. They responded that they weren't aware of Christina having another child before she married (BTW she died June 1948 in Milford, Ireland according to that tree).

This morning, when I had a bit more time, I went back to check that tree. I know the 1901 census was attached to Christina's father's record yesterday, but this morning it is deleted.

So .... the clue ran cold very quickly.

[mshrmh]

RM - shame for you - sounds as though perhaps either they didn't realise the tree was accessible, or perhaps they were upset be the illegitimacy - you never know how people will take things.