Gertrude Ayton, actress of some renown?

[mshrmh]

RM, glad to see things are progressing. If you need help next time you want to order an English cert, shout & someone will "talk you through it". (I've never need a Scottish one & would have to start from scratch if I did).

Oil/foil - another of those quirks from an enumerator like James/Jonas that are sent to try us. I've a few that have had me scratching my head, often when they stray "off the beaten path" of the occupations my families most went in for.

The trade directories may help sort out the occupation if he stayed in one place long enough to be listed. The Historical Directories site has a number (free).
http://www.historicaldirectories.org/hd/
If you're new to that site it isn't the easiest to search - the Technical FAQs on how to search for a name may help.... In some areas it can be easier to open up a directory and browse where you already know an address.

[Tyrannosaurus]

I’m not sure if this has been mentioned somewhere before.

In The Scotsman, 02 April, 1915, there’s an article about a dispute over furniture between an Edinburgh landlord and a soldier. The soldier was John Robert Copland, dentist, of 176 Morrison Street. It contained information that Mr Copland had joined the Royal Scots. The Soldiers’ and Sailors’ Families Association was assisting Mr Copland with the case and his mother had offered to help repay overdue rent.

If the soldiers records were among the minority that survived WW2 bombing perhaps they may contain something useful.

The Scotsman, 27 June, 1912.
Entertainment at the Lauriston Hall in aid of the Children’s Holiday Fund included a play “Ici on Parle Francais”. Gertrude Aytoun [sic] and John R Copland were among the players.

The Scotsman, 26 February, 1930.
Mr J. R. Copland was producer of a number of one act plays presented in the Lecture Hall of the Central Halls by members of the dramatic section of the Edinburgh Women’s Athletic Club. No sign of Gertrude.

Rex

[RedMystic]

mshrmh, thank you very much for the direction on the certificates. I had sent a PM to Monica before I ordered the one I did, but was so excited (wanted instant gratification ) that I didn't wait for her direction . I've learned sooooo much on this exploration that I can put to use on my other English branches. Wonderful!

I'll take a look at the occupations website & save it for future reference. I love knowing about those types of things when it comes to my folk. (AND as a retired human resources guy, my husband has an intrest in that facet too, so it's one of those family history topics I can chat with him about without him glazing over. )

Thank you Ty, for these extra stories. I don't recall the story about the overdue rent & the military. That is a great bit of missing information. I will be tracking down what I can about the WWI military records. 

Hmmmmm that will be a new one for me. I've had a wee bit of experience with WWI Canadian records & WWII  UK records, but any pointers on how to start would be great. If memory serves, there is a website that names those that signed up for the UK in WWI. Is that correct?

John's WWI military service isn't noted in his obituary; just an awful accident that he sufferred during WWII while in Aberdeen. It resulted in a surgery and amputation. His invaluable role in extending the blood service organization to suit the heavy needs during WWII is highlighted; no mention of wife Gertrude though.

I've started compiling a list of all the reviews for Gertrude, and I love it even more when they coincide with performances, direction &/or funding by John. It appears that John continued to arrange drama performance fund raisers for the blood service until right up close to the time of his death.

You have been extra-ordinarily helpful to me on this quest. I think, by way of this thread, you've also been helping another person as I see that someone is having a lot of fun populating many of the details in an *A* tree. I've sent them a message to see how they're connected - no response as yet - but isn't it great to know that someone else is benefitting too?

RootsChat is a wonderful community! Thank you again.

[mshrmh]

RM - Ancestry (at least the .co.uk) version has what WW1 records there are - as Rex notes a fire in WW2 destroyed a lot so IIRC around 40% survive. The usual place to start is the "medal cards" (also on Ancestry)as most people who served were entitled to some medal (campaign/service type) - from Rex's post we know he served in the Royal Scots at some point so if the name's not unique that should help - after that you can try to find service/pension records that tie up. The service records have attestation papers similar (may be identical) to the Canadian ones so if you're lucky & find his records you'll recognise the format.

Good hunting!

[MonicaL]

This is hopefully a link to 'The Stage' archives mentions for Gertrude www.rootschat.com/links/0k7b/  (pay to view as it is for these things). You can buy a 24 hour pass at £5GB. The main link is here https://archive.thestage.co.uk

Added: Link with the listings for Gertrude on the Stage is not working. Just click on the main link/advanced search for "gertrude ayton"

Monica 

[RedMystic]

TX mshrmh. I'd love to find his attestation papers. I've done a quick look - no joy so far - but will come back to it later today.

TX Monica. I'll have a look. My fingers are also crossed that the actors union gets back to me this week.

Cheers,

[RedMystic]

So here is another mystery about Gertrude. I've been trying to narrow down the timeline they became estranged. It seems husband, John, took a trip to the USA in 1927. What do you make of this?

On 5th Nov 1927 he boarded the SS Cedric, of the White Star line, at
Liverpool bound for New York.

He was 38 years old, occupation Dentist, travelled cabin class. He
gave his last address in the UK as 22 Gilmore Place, Edinburgh .
(see US05Nov1927.jpg source: Passenger lists leaving UK 1890 - 1960
via FInd My Past)
 
The Cedric arrived in New York on 14th November 1927
 
John Robert Copland was recorded twice on the arrivals listing!, lines
10 and 18, though there is a note at the bottom to say so and line 18
has been crossed out.

The 'relation in the UK' column. Line 10 says Mrs G Copland, 22 Gilmore Place . Oh goody, I thought, as that narrows down the date that John and Gertrude wife parted company.

Then at line 18 - 'relation in the UK' says Jessie Copland, which was his mother.

  Does anyone have any theories about what might be going on here?

[mshrmh]

It may be a case of how the information was acquired - eg if someone said who is next of kin he could answer his wife, but if he was asked who is the family contact in case of.... then, if they had separated (legally or informally), he could answer his mother. As to why it was filled in twice - could be pure human error, perhaps he thought better of the first answer & asked for a change & the person taking the info then consulted a senior person & went with their ruling - could speculate for a long time.
It is suggestive of marital problems, unless he was the sort of person who'd given his mother as NOK so many times in the past it had become unthinking....

[Tyrannosaurus]

If there was only one child, born early in the marriage, and not the usual number for the time, that maybe suggests an early separation.

Gertrude seems to have been long forgotten by 1941 when the son married.

The Scotsman, 01 April, 1941.
COPLAND—RUNCIMAN. —At Barony and St James Place Church, Edinburgh, on 29th March, 1941, by the Rev. John E. McIntyre, John A. G. Copland, son of Mr J. R. Copland, 22 Gilmore Place, Edinburgh, to Joy Runciman, daughter of Mr. and Mrs. George Runciman, 23 York Place.

Jessie’s death notice reveals nothing.

The Scotsman, 21 March, 1944.
COPLAND.—At 22 Gilmore Place, Edinburgh, on 19th March, 1944, Jessie Inkster, aged 84, wife of the late Robert Copland. Funeral (private) to Dalry Cemetery on Wednesday, 22nd March. Friends meet cortege cemetery gate, 3 p.m.

Rex