Lost Gr Grandfather

[welshwoman59]

My gr grandfather Frederick Alfred Carroll disappeared when my grandad was born in 1889 and was never seen again.  I cannot find him on any of the census after that date.  However, it's come to light that there was another child born in 1892 and died in 1893 in Pancras workhouse and he is listed as the father and Catherine Carroll nee Douglass as her mother.  I appreciate that this may not be so but it is my only lead.  The certificates give his address as 7 spencer road, Pancras and i have tried to search the electoral lists for london 1892 and 1893 but i can't just search the address.  I'm hoping he's there with a different name. Can anyone help me please?

[Ladyhawk]

Just to get an idea of the family

Is this Catherine & son James on the 1891 census & 1901c with her parents David & Eliza ?

1891 RG12; Piece: 138; Folio 148; Page 31
1901   RG13; Piece: 155; Folio: 132; Page: 17

and is this Frederick on 1881 census

Frederick Alfred Carroll b1865 Marylebone Middx  occ Apprentice to Organ Builder son of James P & Emma Carroll

[welshwoman59]

Yes, that's right.  My grandfather James was placed in the Shaftesbury homes on the Arethusa later.  His paperwork confirms he was abandoned by his father 13 years earlier.  I suppose it's possible that Catherine had this child, Florence by another man but I still can't find Alfred.......   It's my only lead

[Ladyhawk]

Yes, that's right.  My grandfather James was placed in the Shaftesbury homes on the Arethusa later.  His paperwork confirms he was abandoned by his father 13 years earlier.  I suppose it's possible that Catherine had this child, Florence by another man but I still can't find Alfred.......   It's my only lead

Florence Rose born 5 Nov 1893 bapt. 12 Nov St Pancras
F Frederick Alfred Carroll occ Bricklayer m Catherine Residence Work House

If the above birth is correct this may be Florence’s father he's a lodger living in Surrey ,noted ‘M’ = married, an out of work bricklayer

1891 RG12; Piece: 568; Folio 13; Page 20
9 Upper Church Lane Farnham Surrey
Frederick Alfred Carroll 35 St Pancras London Bricklayer out of work

On James Garnett Carrolls’ baptism record 22/11/1889 St Mark Marylebone London born 20/11 his mother’s name is written as Caroline & father Frederick Alfred’s occupation ‘Artisan’, abode 20 Raglan St

[Ladyhawk]

Is there a possibility this if Frederick on 1901c 

 RG13; Piece: 1322; Folio: 155; Page: 34
Metropolitan Asylum Leavesden
Frederick Carroll Patient 49 Shoreditch London  No occupation

Not sure if you have the details of their marriage - perhaps their daughter Florence was named after their witness 

9 Mar 1889 St John the Baptist Kentish Town
Frederick Alfred Carroll 25 Railway Porter 16 Leverton St
 f James Peter Organ Pipe Maker married Catherine Douglass 28 f David Postman both signed
Wits Charles Kentish & Florence Elizabeth Eames

[welshwoman59]

Florence Eames was the sister of Frederick - her maiden name was Carroll.  I guessed the baby was named for her which would mean he was still around in 1893??   The guy in the asylum could be him but he was born in St Pancras in 1864.  My grandfather ended up in Wales and no one seems to know why.  Also, none of them appear on the 1911 census.  James may have been away in the army and there is a great likelihood that this was so but i can't find his mother Catherine either.  That's why i wonder if Frederick changed his name. 

[cath151]

Hi,
Probablynot your  Frederick at all  but if it was might account for him being a little elusive.
Frederick Albert Carroll 1865, Brenton, Surrey.
Painter, not married.
2934 3rd Batt West Yorkshire Reg
Attested 10 Nov 1892
Deserted 7 Dec 1892

Intended place of residence  Mrs Craker, High Street, Clifford, Yorkshire.

Cathy

[jennifer c]

Is it your tree on line showing Catherine dying 1932 Merthyr Tydril?

Jennifer

[welshwoman59]

Yes, that's right.  She took some finding because her age is wrong!!