Date for a PRINGLE

[Seoras]

Where was he in Canada?

Apologies China,I didn't spot this,he was in Quebec.

What do you and gnu think about this for a marriage.Newcastle 30 September 1844.

Edward Pringle to Ann Roxborough.His father was Richard Pringle and hers John Roxborough.Edward named two of his sons Richard and John.

[Seoras]

Could these be his parents and Eleanor's grandparents.Bearing in mind Edward was born in Holy Island.

Holy Island 1841.

Richard Pringle 70 Weaver
Eleanor 60
Ann 30
Eleanor 20
Elizabeth 20
Edward 6

This Edward must be the son of one of the girls,looking at the ages most likely Ann.

[Seoras]

Eleanor's mother Ann died in Richmond in 1875 aged 62.1881 census Edward is in Ripon aged 75 with youngest daughter Elizabeth.He is a Chelsea Pensioner and librarian.They are living in 'public rooms'?

I think Edward died in Ripon in 1888,his birth is a bit out but I think it must be him.

Eleanor and brother Richards births.One in Wellington barracks and one in St.George's barracks.

[Seoras]

A thought on how the photos came to be down in the southwest.

Eleanor's brother Richard Thomas Pringle married Mary Jane Wells,the daughter of Thomas Wells,a butcher and his wife Jane.All the Wells family were born and lived in Richmond.They married in York 5 March 1870 where Richard was a printer and copywriter.They are still there in 1891 but in 1901 Richard and all but the eldest son Thomas are in Swansea where he is still a printer.Children with him are:-

George Cecil 29
Gertrude 27
Olive 26
William 25
Bertram 20
Ethel 17

Wife Mary Jane died in Swansea in 1897 and Richard in Swansea in 1914.Swansea is about 40 miles from where I bought the photos,so I am guessing they came from him or one of his children.

Another possibility is Ann on the 1841 census.There is an Ann Pringle who fits age and place of birth wise living In Cheltenham 1861,this is even closer,but my money is on Richard's family.

[chinakay]

Didn't spot them in a Canadian census...shame, that would have been cool

[Gadget]

Hi George

I see that you've  broken your pre-Burns Night purdah - are you now going to pipe in the haggis or give a toast to the lasses (think that's China and me)!

http://www.rabbie-burns.com/the_supper/index.cfm.html


The 1841 census info HO107/318/5/17/2 looks very likely since the names repeat in Edward's family.  They are actually living in Fenham which is on the mainland opposite Holy Island but part of that parish.

Map link here and  a photo looking across from Holy Island to Fenham and the mainland that I took in 2010 is attached

http://www.rootschat.com/links/0jyf/

We pass  close by fairly often on our way from here (Newcastle) to the North West.


This all ties in with what I found in my replies # 21 to #27, which includes the census details that you've listed, Ann's death and the subsequent movements of the daughters.  Note that on the 1881 in Ripon they were staying in public rooms next door to the Turks Head. These rooms might well belong to the hostelry! This is all a bit Jane Austen-ish but a number of decades later!

An alternative reason for the photos being in the South West is that we find that Eleanor and her family move from the  Isle of Wight to Henry Sleeman's birthplace of Tavistock (found in 1911 free index search) and Jane dies there in 1921 (see my reply #27). Also, Eleanor Sleeman died Dec q, 1926, Tavistock, aged 75.   This, I would suggest,  is more likely since the inscriptions on the backs of the photos (even if wrong) referred to Ann, Jane and Eleanor  and to Eleanor's marriage to a Sleeman and there is no mention of the brothers. 

It might also be worth chasing up Elizabeth after the 1881 - she could have migrated south westwards as well!

Added
It looks as if Elizabeth Pringle might have died the year after the 1881 census:
Death - Elizabeth Pringle June q, 1882, Ripon 9a 58, aged 24



gnu

(Just noticed the time - far far too early!)

[Gadget]

A bit more:

On the censuses, Jane Ann's birth is  given consistently as Newcastle. I think that this is more likely than the Morpeth one that China found:

Jane Ann Pringle, June q, 1846, Newcastle upon Tyne, 25 376

Also this, which might have implications for the marriage that you found - the eldest son:

Edward Pringle birth reg Mar q, 1844, Newcastle upon Tyne 25 335

I see that they married Sept  1844!

Ann Pringle (nee Roxborough),  was born Greenside circa 1816 according to the census info but circa 1813, according to her death. Greenside was just across the Tyne from Newcastle. . It was in the parish of Ryton, Co. Durham and the Bishops Transcripts  are given below.

I've had a quick look but don't see a baptism so far.

BTs for Ryton are here:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-267-11769-47107-42?cc=1309819&wc=11540372

BTs for Newcastle All Saints (1836-1845)  are here - not sure if they include marriages but could include baptisms of the older children:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-267-11837-21858-79?cc=1309819&wc=11540202
1845-1856 here:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-267-11808-78746-84?cc=1309819&wc=11540206

BTs for Holy Island are here:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-267-12047-36585-16?cc=1309819&wc=11540327


gnu

[Gadget]

and a bit  more:

I think that this is Ann Roxborough and her parents and sibs in 1841:

Belsay Inn, Belsay, Castle Ward, Northumberland
HO107/837/20/4/4
John Roxborough, 50, Inn keeper
Ann, 50
Thomas, 30, ag lab
Robert, 15, ag lab
Ann, 20
Isabella, 15
Elizabeth, 14
Jane, 12
Mary, 9
/Thomas Robson, 20, post boy
William Potts, 20, ag lab
All down as b. Northumberland


gnu

Just been having a read of Edward's service record  - he was 6ft 2 ins, grey eyes and light brown hair - but changes to blue eyes a grey hair when he was 70 

[Gadget]

added -  Joseph Raine, aged 30, b. Reeth, was in Richmond on the 1871 as a photgraphic artist. In 1861, he was with his widowed mother in Reeth, as a carpenter!

I found this a while ago but forgot about the Harrogate one and look at this:

 Peter Skeolan (of the Harrogate photo) in Leeds in 1871:

1 Commercial Street, Leeds
RG10/4568/78/10
Peter Skeolan, 54, Painter and photographer, b. Ireland

Not found so far  in 1861 or 1881

However, I've found this:

Lancaster Gazette, Wed 16 Oct 1889
Suicide of an Artist at Southport:
On Wednesday morning an inquest was held at the Town Hall, Southport, .....on the body of Peter Paul Skeolan, an artist, who died on Sunday night, from the effects of laudanum. On the previous Friday afternoon, deceased purchased half an ounce of laudanum at the shop of Mr Ball....Informing the assistant that he was suffering from neuralgia. This he took on Sunday night at his lodgings, 4 Hawesside Street. On Tuesday, Dr Baildon made a post mortem examination, when it was found that deceased had been suffering from fatty degeneration of the heart, in consequence of which the laudanum took greater effect on him. A verdict was returned to the effect that he committed suicide from opium poisoning while in a state of temporary insanity.

And this much earlier ~

Liverpool Mercury, Feb 15, 1859
Love and Suicide
The attempt made on his own life by Baron de Chastellain, at the Eight Bells, Commercial Hotel, Cheltenham..................Mr Peter Skeolan, photgraphic artist, stated that deceased had made proposals to him for the hand of his daughter .............letters were produced and read, etc., etc.

Reports of this in other newspapers also. A report of said daughter's marriage in Newcastle in 1867 in  The Leeds Mercury. 

It's worth joining a library to get all this info!


gnu