John KNILL b1827 - Chittlehampton

[krisesjoint]

Hi DevonKnill,

Interesting that your John did name a son Matthew. There is a John in Chittlehampton in 1841, but alas, he is not with family and age listed as only 10, an apprentice to John  GRADDON, farmer. HO107/234/10 Folio 19 Page 20.

Also in 1841 I find a Matthew NEIL an ag lab aged 15 in South Molton. He appears to have been baptised to Matthew and Elizabeth in Chittlehampton 9 Dec 1822 (Matthew KNEEL)

Now initially I found

Matthew KNEEL = Elizabeth ISAAC Chittlehampton 24 Jan 1809.
Matthew KNEILL = Mary GOVIER 19 Jan 1784. (Births 1784-1806, with a Matthew in 1791) wondering if Elizabeth was second wife.

A Matthew KNILL was buried 29 Sep 1824 aged 64 - so the baptism you found , but he is dead 3 years before the baptism for John in Swimbridge in 1827. 

Now in 1841 we have Elizabeth KNIEL in Chittlehampton with Children Ratchel 5, Ann 4 and William 1. HO107/234/7 Folio 11 Page 17. This Elizabeth is aged 40 (ag Lab) born in the county,  so not the one who married in 1809. Following up I discovered these other baptisms

Thomas KNILL was baptised 1 Feb 1822 to Matthew and Elizabeth in Chittlehampton
James KNILL was baptised 21 Mar 1830 to Matthew and Elizabeth in Chittlehampton
Gilbert KNILL was baptised 6 May 1832 to Matthew and Elizabeth in Chittlehampton
Rachel KNEEL was baptised 4 May 1834 to Matthew and Elizabeth in Chittlehampton
Ann KNILL was baptised 12 Feb 1837 to Matthew and Elizabeth in Chittlehampton
William KNILL was baptised 9 Oct 1839 to Matthew and Betsey in Chittlehampton

There is also an Elizabeth baptised to Nathaniel and Elizabeth in Swimbridge 29 May 1825  (can't find a marriage or other baptisms)

There is a Matthew KNEEL = Elizabeth SYMS 13 May 1820 in Mariansleigh

By 1851 "Betsey" is still in Chittlehampton, now married to John  JOCE. (a shoemaker) She is aged 52 born Maryansley. The children are listed as John KNEEL son in Law 13 Lab, William KNEEL son in Law 11, Ann JOCE Dau 7 and Ann KNEEL 13 daughter in Law. (all listed as born in Chittlehampton) It seems John's age may have been wrongly entered as 13.  HO107/1891 Folio 730 Page 23

John JOCE = Elizabeth KNEEL Jun 1/4 1843 South Molton 10 333

Cheers Kris 

[DevonKnill]

Hi Kris
Many thanks for all the information, which is fascinating and most helpful. It suggests that John's parents were Matthew Knill and Elizabeth "Betsey" Knill née Syms (c1799-), and that his grandparents were Matthew Knill (1760-1824) and Mary Govier. FamilySearch has the record of an Elizabeth Kneel, baptised 15 March, 1812, in Chittlehampton, and her parents are given as Matthew Kneel and Eliz Kneel (née Isaac?). There is also the record for a Mary Neal, baptised 4 February, 1821, in Mariansleigh, daughter of Matthew and Elizabeth Neal.
Regards
DevonKnill

[billwebb]

John Knill was my Gt Gt Grandfather he was born/baptised in swimbridge 14th Oct 1827.  Married Grace Handford 27/3/1853 in Chittlehampton.   They moved to Cornwall and my Gt grandfather William was born there (Fowey) in 1863 (they had 10 children in total.   John died at home on 11th sept. 1889 following a dreadful accident at the Molland Mine of a shock to the system, the result of severe burns sustained by a quantity of hot iron ore falling on him (There is a coroners report in the North Devon Journal 13/9/1889) .    His son William had a 'colourful' life which included a spell of five years in 1881 in Dartmoor convict prison, he 'joined up in WW1 at about 52 and had at least two charges of 'Salmon poaching' with a Gaff.

[DevonKnill]

Hi billwebb
I'm grateful to you for sharing the insights into your family history, which are very interesting. Would you happen to have any further ancestral details, as I'd like to know how your great, great-grandfather's branch of the family connects with the north Devon Knill family tree?
Regards
DevonKnill

[billwebb]

I have a vast amount of info on the North Devon Knills.    My Grandmother was Rose Knill born Barnstaple 1893 moved to Ilfracombe died 1958.   She was a daughter of William Knill born Fowey 1863 and Grand daughter of John Knill.   Matthew Knill John Knill's father(I am 98% certain) died in the Exeter Bridewell in 1840 his name was spelt Kneyle and he died of a 'visitation from God' he was there for 12 months for larceny.    Kneyle is one way of spelling Knill when pronounced in a Devon accent and he 'disappeared' in 1840 and this man was exactly the right age.    His wife Elizabeth Sims then re-married John Joce in 1843 and she finally died in the South Molton Workhouse aged 107 (on her death certificate-signed by the overseer) and she was (according to census - 99 in 1881 when at Touts court, South Molton.     However the later census show she was adding about 20 years to her age at succeeding census   I am convinced about his parents Matthew Knill and Mary Govier but less happy before this.   Where do you fit in with the North Devon Knills?.      Bill Webb

[DevonKnill]

Thanks, Bill, for posting further details, which are fascinating. I'm from the Braunton/Ilfracombe branch of the family, and I've been researching my family history for about seven years. Some of the information I've found I've put on flickr (http://www.flickr.com/photos/knillhistory/). I'd be interested to see more of your Knill family history information.

[billwebb]

I have a lot about John and William Knill's family but I have never been able to connect this Knill family to either the Braunton or Pilton, Barnstaple - Knill families.   I do have a document sent to me a few years ago about the Braunton Knills from a chap who lived on one of the Greek Isles it appears on page 51 of his family tree document entitled Eleven (Chapter) The Knill Line and covers Alfred Slocombe Knill et al.    I was born in Ilfracombe as was my mother but not related to the Ilfracombe Knills, our family came from Barnstaple temporarily but prior to that from North Molton (for generations).
William Knill (Fowey) had 11 children.  William 1886 died in infancy; Emily 1888 married Sydney Knapp both died in the 1911 Enteric fever outbreak in Barnstaple; Eliza 1890 married frederick Frisbee lived in Barnstaple; Rose 1893 my Grandmother married 3 times all in Ilfracombe lived in Fore St, Berkely Place and lastly 12 Highfield Rd;  William George famous shooter 6th Devons won  medals at Bisley; Charles Henry wounded in WW1 moved to Tyneside then back to Barnstaple; Frederick 1898 WW1 ship was wrecked at Cape Wrath pensioned out of Royal Navy he emigrated to Winnipeg then moved and died in British Columbia; Florence 1899 also died in 1911 enteric fever outbreak; John Henry 1901 (Uncle Jack) emigrated to Winnipeg then on to Grand Rapids then Muskegon, Michigan USA; Alice Maud 1906 married Reginald Lawrence lived in Barnstaple; Ivy Grace 1909 married Arthur William Clemence moved to Exeter.    The Knapps who died in 1911 had two children and they were brought up by William and Sarah Jane Knill but the boy William Knapp fell foul of the law and was put into care of DR Barnardos and sent to Australia on his 16th Birthday.    Interesting but not sure if relevent to you.   All the best   Bill
 

[DevonKnill]

Many thanks, Bill, for all the extra information, which is very interesting and helpful.
Regards
DevonKnill

[billwebb]

Hi again.  John Knill's parents.   Matthew Knill (Kneyle) 1837 6 months imprisonment for stealing a Grinding stone in King's Nympton next door to Chittlehamholt 29/7/1837 Western Times and 12 months for larceny in 1840 died in prison.   Confirmed in British Library Newspaper archives online.   Also Elizabeth Sims,  Inquest into death of their daughter Rachel who died of burns accidentally received at a neighbours house but mother Elizabeth severely criticised by Coroner and Jury for making her recover on a 'dirt bed' and refusing to let her on to their 'feather bed' which Elizabeth was using with her 'paramour' a man called Joce, she married him 2 weeks after the death of Rachel.   North Devon Journal 30th March 1843.