Author Topic: Ruins and Romans, Fonts and Furrows. Anything Old in Lancashire  (Read 30012 times)

Online youngtug

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Re: Ruins and Romans, Fonts and Furrows. Anything Old in Lancashire
« Reply #117 on: Tuesday 24 January 12 13:46 GMT (UK) »


To recap, at least for my own benefit, there is a school of thought that for convincing reasons has the 14th century Black Death and the 17th century Bubonic Plague as two separate diseases. 

Black Death -
Incubation period - 32 days
Death sure to follow infection
No rats in rural areas as black rat stayed near ports and no brown rat until 1720-ish

Bubonic Plague -
Incubation period 2-6 days
Human mortality lower and not as infectious
Caused by bacterium Yerisina Pestis that affects rodents then transmitted by fleas.
 

Not sure that it was two separate diseases, reports seem to describe the same or similar symptoms. The theory of a longer incubation period put forward from Liverpool seems to be based on a study conducted on a village or small area only, it may well have been something else that occurred there, but not overall. Maybe they should disinter the bodies and see if they can extract the DNA, if possible.
I am not convinced of the fact that black rats stayed in ports only, I think they where much more widespread.
Also any type of sickness tended to be classed as the plague at the time, a consequence of ignorance and fear I would think.
The small amount of DNA research done so far as proven the existence of bubonic plague but it needs more widespread research.

Offline andrewalston

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Re: Ruins and Romans, Fonts and Furrows. Anything Old in Lancashire
« Reply #118 on: Tuesday 24 January 12 14:33 GMT (UK) »
The last time I called at the chapel by Stocks reservoir I was surprised to find that it had electricity, and electric heating, driven from a wind turbine by the graveyard wall.

Keeping the place warm and dry should help preserve it in the worst of the inclement weather up there.

There was also space for an explanatory exhibition about the area.
Looking at ALSTON in south Ribble area, ALSTEAD and DONBAVAND/DUNBABIN etc. everywhere, HOWCROFT and MARSH in Bolton and Westhoughton, PICKERING in the Whitehaven area.

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Offline Lal

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Re: Ruins and Romans, Fonts and Furrows. Anything Old in Lancashire
« Reply #119 on: Tuesday 24 January 12 22:01 GMT (UK) »
About Stocks, I'm a bit sad now as I looked it up on Google Street View and the area where the ruined houses was now seems to be a big car park area. Back in the 70s and 80s, there was just a layby on the corner, and a path through the trees. The ruins stood between the road and the waterside, near the sharp bend in School Lane - easy to find now on Google Maps by looking for the car park!

But from various searches I've done, it also looks like the ruins of the big old house with the cellar might have been the vicarage.

It used to be possible to go across the bridge, though seeing the last photos of it, I'm not sure it would be 100% safe now, if there was another drought.
West Lancashire - Leatherbarrow, Hunter, Sherman, Formby, Caunce, Cookson, Wright, Finch, Roughley, Sutch, Almond, Parr, Lea, Smith, Wignal, Marsh, Lovelady
Liverpool - Cottam, Candeland, Stewart, Breen, Owens, Wiseman, Johnson, Cross
Cheshire - Monks, Candeland, Cottam
Co. Durham - Palmer, Adamson
Shropshire - Huffa
Wales - Owens. Ireland - Breen, Wiseman

Offline mosiefish

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Re: Ruins and Romans, Fonts and Furrows. Anything Old in Lancashire
« Reply #120 on: Wednesday 25 January 12 21:59 GMT (UK) »
Just to go back to the cottage in Blackmoss, it is included in the Lancashire Archaeology Dayschool Programme Saturday 21 April 2012.  There will be a 40 minute talk about it.

http://www.lancashire.gov.uk/corporate/web/?siteid=4398&pageid=19848&e=e

Scroll down to programme.

I am actually quite tempted to go as there are some other interesting topics during the day.


Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Lancs: Harrison, Entwistle, Devine, Grundy, Ashworth, Freeman, Jackson, Rushton
Cornwall: Rich, Binney, Peak(e)
Devon: Martin, Walter(s)


Offline Maggie.

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Re: Ruins and Romans, Fonts and Furrows. Anything Old in Lancashire
« Reply #121 on: Wednesday 25 January 12 22:34 GMT (UK) »
'Frank Giecco (North Pennines Archaeology)' is listed as giving the talk - he is the man who took our group round the cottage.

Looks an interesting day, Mo - I'm tempted to come with you.
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Offline Maggie.

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Re: Ruins and Romans, Fonts and Furrows. Anything Old in Lancashire
« Reply #122 on: Wednesday 25 January 12 23:45 GMT (UK) »
I have spend the evening with Bubonic Plague  ::)

This is a fairly recent bit of research that would seem point to the 14th century outbreak being caused by the bacterium yersinia pestis, which is the cause of bubonic plague today.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/08/110829173751.htm
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Online youngtug

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Re: Ruins and Romans, Fonts and Furrows. Anything Old in Lancashire
« Reply #123 on: Thursday 26 January 12 07:55 GMT (UK) »
They seem to have overcome the possibility of contamination during DNA testing that the people who carried out the research in my earlier link where accused of.

[earlier link; http://www.pnas.org/content/97/23/12800.full.pdf

Offline Greensleeves

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Re: Ruins and Romans, Fonts and Furrows. Anything Old in Lancashire
« Reply #124 on: Thursday 26 January 12 13:35 GMT (UK) »
That latest article on the Black Death is very interesting Maggie; so that and bubonic plague are the same strain - how very interesting that the incubation periods have changed so dramatically.

I've been reading up about how the Black Death affected life in Lancashire.  Apparently, one-half of the population of the county was wiped out in the outbreaks of 1348 and 1351.  Before this time, there had been quite a rapid expansion in arable farming, with pastures being ploughed up to grow crops, woodlands cleared, and even rough uplands being ploughed up to produce crops.

Following the Black Death, however, there was insufficient manpower for the labour-intensive industry of arable farming and consequently there was a reversion to livestock farming once again.  It was soon found that there was a ready market for wool in both Britain and the continent and therefore it was not long before the county had developed a thriving wool trade.  Following on from this, the presence of so many rivers and other watercourses meant that the county was ideally placed to branch out into textile manufacturing on a larger scale than hitherto.  Consequently the cloth-making industry of Lancashire developed, as a result in part of the ready supply of wool following the re-focusing of farming after the Black Death.

The fact that in the wake of the Black Death, Lancashire was  predominantly involved in  livestock farming, other than in the fertile valleys, meant that the raised strips of the earlier period were left unploughed; and consequently we have the legacy of that era as these raised strips and field systems are in many places still apparent today.
Suffolk: Pearl(e),  Garnham, Southgate, Blo(o)mfield,Grimwood/Grimwade,Josselyn/Gosling
Durham/Yorkshire: Sedgwick/Sidgwick, Shadforth
Ireland: Davis
Norway: Torreson/Torsen/Torrison
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Offline Maggie.

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Re: Ruins and Romans, Fonts and Furrows. Anything Old in Lancashire
« Reply #125 on: Thursday 26 January 12 16:51 GMT (UK) »
Quote
and consequently we have the legacy of that era as these raised strips and field systems are in many places still apparent today.


A good, informative piece of information, GS - thanks.  Time for a picture of medieval field systems on a hillside local to me. 
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