J. A. "Jock " McNeil

[J.J.]

ahhh this ties it all together then....Uses M'Neill so that's likely why I never found it before...Also says mother was Annie Henry...
John MacNeill, son of Malcolm MacNeill and Euphemia McAllister of Argyllshire, Scotland, was the first MacNeill to come to PEI and possibly landing in October 1770 from the barque Annabella from Campbellton, Scotland.  http://www.islandregister.com/jmcneill.html

Says Addison never married... or he was unmarried at the time the information was passed on.....
and the information of marriage I'd found to a Bertha Welz with father as Donald doesn't match
Also the Joseph McNeil & Adelaide Schulken on U.S. censuses were having children in Boston Mass prior to the war and he never stated married...but he also never said he was in the U.S. either!
and where IS he on censuses as single then??

I note that the Henry family history also lists him as unmarried  http://www.islandregister.com/henry1.html

[Milly Mac]

You might try contacting the Clan MacNeil Association in Canada - they might have some information and possibly a contact to some of his relatives.
Good Luck,
Milly Mac.

[Speedway ace]

Thanks to all for the latest info 

His army record states ...Unmarried.

Why in 2 official records did he state his origins were Irish....must have had a sense of humour?

I wonder why little can be found after 1910 for the family  ....and nothing for Jock after 1900.

[J.J.]

Well it just proves that what people were willing to document wasn't always true....Men who abandoned their women said they were single...Women who were abandoned said they were widows, ages are falsified, "er exaggerated"....But the fellow may not have known his own heritage either. I always thought my family was German as they spoke it, but that was because an ancestor ended up in a German speaking village...
I am also suspicious that he was called Jock because the other fellow was named that, and the media got it wrong so it stuck... It was the media who amputated his leg...it didn't happen in real life... The family may have assumed he was "unmarried" because it said so on his attestation...
He also was called John A. and Jack which was more likely the other "Jock's" real names...
If you look at the 1920 for Chicago and don't put a forename in just dates+- born Canada...the Joseph A. come up who is married to Bertha, so he'd have had to have lied about his parents for that one to be him...
1930the only single Mc Neil seems to be a Joseph J in Manhattan
These are all just clues... and not enough have been uncovered to reveal this mystery... Perhaps more information will come to light over time.  J.J.

[J.J.]

If he remained in Chicago, and it seems Schwinn /Excelsior/Henderson remained viable for the decade, there should be some news in the Tribune, available here, but not sure if you can sign in or use an ask a librarian feature
http://www.winona.edu/library/databases/newspapers.html#historical
Perhaps they may hold some company history, doesn't hurt to ask...Also directories may be available to see if he is even living there as a machinist, mechanical engineer, or somesuch...
Here it calls him John McNeill but refers to the Cyclone ride, so must be one and the same, odd media, as this story is repeated in part elsewhere, calling him Jock...Anyway, it states he died in a car accident
http://books.google.ca/books?id=1KpMaZUruxkC&pg=PA62

Probably had this but the amputation was in this motorcycle mag/ bot left 1917 http://www.archive.org/stream/motorcycleillus00unkngoog#page/n172/mode/2up Says he was racing at the Toronto motordrome when he decided to enlist...

[David Morrill]

Sorry to break into your discussion unannounced.

My name is David Morrill and I am a writer and motorcycle racing historian. I found your postings on J.A. Jock McNeil. There were two Jock McNeils racing in the States in the early teens. Jock McNeil from Scotland, and J.A. Jock McNeil from Canada. To make things even more confusing, they both raced English JAP engined racers in 1912-13.

Jock McNeil, from Scotland, was killed in a racing accident at the Atlanta Motordrome board track in 1913.

Canadian J.A. McNeil, rode for Cyclone, after JAP. He then went to work for Excelsior Motorcycles, and developed and rode their OHV 8 valve racing engines. He did serve in World War 1, as a motorcycle dispatch rider. He was injured, and one of his legs was amputated. I believe he returned to Excelsior, as an engineer after the war. Don't think he raced anymore, but I'm not sure. There are several pictures of J.A. Jock McNeil, both as a racer, and team engineer in Stephen Wrights book on the board track racing era American Racer 1900-1400.

The attached photo is the Canadian J.A. Jock McNeil on his JAP racer in 1912. The author of the caption, miss-identified him as the Scot McNeil. This happens quite a bit.

The death of the Scottish Jock McNeil is documented in a story on the Atlanta Motordrome on my Deadly Dave's Blog. This link should take you to the story.

http://dlmracing.blogspot.com/search/label/Atlanta%20Motordrome

I hope this helps.

Sincerely,

David L. Morrill
Deadly Dave's Blog http://dlmracing.blogspot.com
Sylacauga, AL. USA.

[Milly Mac]

Hello,
Thank you for that information - none of which was known to me.
Interestingly, my Dad was a despatch rider in WWII and retained an interest in motorcycles all his life, restoring BSA's and many others.(In Australia).
I don't know if these two McNeill's are related - I'm still plodding away at the family tree, but I will file it away for future reference.
Thanks again.
Kind Regards,
Milly Mac.

[David Morrill]

Thank you Milly,

I wish I knew more about both of them. I have several Atlanta Constitution articles on the Scottish Jock McNeil. He was one of the stars of the Atlanta Motordome. His  brother was at the Motordrome, when Jock was killed trying to break the track record. The track held a benefit race, after several weather delays, to ship his body back to Scotland for burial, and to benefit his mother. This was a common occurrence when racers were killed during that early period of motorcycle racing.

There is more information on J.A. McNeil from Canada. He lived much longer and played an important role in several very successful motorcycle company racing teams. At the time, automobile and motorcycle racing were the most popular spectator sports of the time here in the States.

I will have to spend a little more time looking into J.A. McNeil, as my own family came down to Maine from Canada, before the American Revolution.

Sincerely,

David L. Morrill

[Speedway ace]

Hi David,  Long time since we last spoke on the speedway history forum.

I have the full medical record of Joseph Addison McNeil and he left England with his leg still attached. I even have his temperature chart. He is most definitely Canadian by birth. His racing career began on bicycles                 
I have not found any evidence to suggest he was ever called Jock, a myth I believe started by Stephen Wright in his book (I have a copy) who confused the two riders and this has been repeated by historian Daniel Statnekov and it has caused considerable confusion ever since.

Again, I have not found any evidence to suggest he rode a J.A.P.

Regarding the photo you have kindly posted. I believe it is wrongly captioned, this photo is of Jock McNeil the Scotsman on his JAP, this pic was taken at the Atlanta Motordrome. You will note on the fuel tank the word "AULD" the Scots word for "old" the rest of the legend cannot be seen but it could possibly read 'AULD REEKIE  the nickname for Edinburgh !. I have a a photo which I believe was taken the same day as the one you posted, this time the motorcycle is facing the opposite direction and Jock is looking directly at the camera and it does not look like J A McNeil. I believe both pictures can be found in the Atlanta newspapers, captioned "Jock McNeil" Having scanned the rider lists for the Atlanta track I did not find a J A McNeil. 

In my view J A McNeil (Canadian) (Cyclone) should not be referred to as Jock.

As for Jock McNeil, (The Scot?) (JAP), So far I have not found any evidence of his body being returned to Scotland, No reference to him or his death in the Scottish newspapers. When he arrived in the states is another mystery?

Regards Nigel