ROBERTS/SMITH Puzzle pieces Missing

[scullywully]

Hi Soojane I am also Ellen and Hannibal's Gt Gt Grandaughter.(he changed his name to Hannibal Winnie as you will know). I researched Ellen for years and a cousin and myself have pieced together her very interesting life -  she was very difficult to track down due to name changes and her unconventional life.  Orlando and Ellen were never married. Daniel was her husband originally but after an ill fated elopment with someone to the South Island and it made the papers, he sold her to the much older Orlando Winnie for 7 shillings and 6 pence (it made the papers, I can show you the newspaper articles. Wife selling was considered a very outdated and barbaric practice). This is why there was no marriage certificate. They had many children as you will know but she left Orlando for someone else when my gt gt grandmother was five (Myrtle Lena Winnie). She lived with this other man and had two children with him. They married late, I think they were in their 60s but I would have to check the details as I'm not at home at the moment. A cousin is researching her parents currently. If you would like to contact me at my yahoo uk address it's * I can give you the very long and complicated story of her life and the several articles about her that got into the newspapers.

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[dhouston]

Blast...pressed the wrong key and haven't finished.  Looks a bit messy as I hadn't finished formatting.

From other info found on the web you appear to be descended from Myrtle Lena.

From Pauline

Hi, Helena (Ellen) Roberts born 1863 at Ballarat. (no other date).
Mother: Mary Ann Corfield (Caulfield), Father: Edward Roberts.
Siblings: Twins Thomas Earl and Henry Roberts born 1865 at Ballarat. (no other date).
Helena died on 6th August 1928 and was buried with William Smith died 2nd January 1929 at Bromley Cemetary.
She lived in New Zealand for 50 years.
Before Helena and William died, they married in Christchurch on the 22nd January 1925 after living together for many years.
 The m.c. states William became widowed in 1905 and Helena (spinster). There were 3 children, one son named William who came from William's first marriage to Emily Hawton and two daughters one named Ellen Roberts (my grandmother) and Violet. I have Ellen's (daughter) m.c. from her second marriage, stating that William Smith was her father. The info I have has been calculated from dates on the certificates and what little my own mother knows. If there is anything more specific please let me know.

William stated he was widowed in 1905 and if he is the father of Ellen and Violet, he would have been in a relationship with Ellen while his first wife was alive.

Births
1903/12083
ROBERTS Ellen   Mother Ellen  Father not recorded

1905
ROBERTS Violet  Mother Ellen  Father not recorded

So you are seeking information about Ellen between the dates of the last child's birth and her death on 16 Aug 1928.

I note that Orlando Hannival WINNIE died 14 Apr 1924 aged 77 years ie born c1847.  Year of birth same as parish record of his marriage in 1877.  He was 16 years older than Ellen.

Have you thought about posting a request on the New Zealand board [and linking this thread] for help with locating information about Ellen and William eg in the electoral rolls?
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/board,299.0.html

Cheers
Cando

I have two pics of Francis Earl (ponty), he was a drummer played for hutt civic band. percy won national drum competition twice... Would anyone like to share information?

[dhouston]

link=topic=575178.msg5685232#msg5685232 date=1435665593]

Blast...pressed the wrong key and haven't finished.  Looks a bit messy as I hadn't finished formatting.

From other info found on the web you appear to be descended from Myrtle Lena.

From Pauline

Hi, Helena (Ellen) Roberts born 1863 at Ballarat. (no other date).
Mother: Mary Ann Corfield (Caulfield), Father: Edward Roberts.
Siblings: Twins Thomas Earl and Henry Roberts born 1865 at Ballarat. (no other date).
Helena died on 6th August 1928 and was buried with William Smith died 2nd January 1929 at Bromley Cemetary.
She lived in New Zealand for 50 years.
Before Helena and William died, they married in Christchurch on the 22nd January 1925 after living together for many years.
 The m.c. states William became widowed in 1905 and Helena (spinster). There were 3 children, one son named William who came from William's first marriage to Emily Hawton and two daughters one named Ellen Roberts (my grandmother) and Violet. I have Ellen's (daughter) m.c. from her second marriage, stating that William Smith was her father. The info I have has been calculated from dates on the certificates and what little my own mother knows. If there is anything more specific please let me know.

William stated he was widowed in 1905 and if he is the father of Ellen and Violet, he would have been in a relationship with Ellen while his first wife was alive.

Births
1903/12083
ROBERTS Ellen   Mother Ellen  Father not recorded

1905
ROBERTS Violet  Mother Ellen  Father not recorded

So you are seeking information about Ellen between the dates of the last child's birth and her death on 16 Aug 1928.

I note that Orlando Hannival WINNIE died 14 Apr 1924 aged 77 years ie born c1847.  Year of birth same as parish record of his marriage in 1877.  He was 16 years older than Ellen.

Have you thought about posting a request on the New Zealand board [and linking this thread] for help with locating information about Ellen and William eg in the electoral rolls?
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/board,299.0.html

Cheers
Cando

[/quote]

[scottishdancer]

NZ BDM on-line records research- Orlando Hannibal Winnie m. 14 Feb 1877 Folio 313, to Emma Pitt who d. aged 25 years on 31 Jan 1878 Folio 779, b. 12 Feb 1852 Folio 1919. Daughter Emma Eliza Ann Winnie b. and d. same day as her mother Emma. Subsequent children have Ellen as the mother. Paperspast NZ **   Evening Post, Volume XVI, Issue 43, 2 February 1878. Page 1. Rose of the Valley Lodge, 4319. Officers and Brothers of the above Lodge are respectfully invited to attend the Funeral of the late wife of Brother Orlando H. Winnie, which will leave her father's residence (Mr. Henry Pitt), Pipitea Point, on Sunday, 3rd February, at 4 o'clock p.m. (Henry Pitt md Ann Smith 07 June 1852 Folio 46. An 'Ann Pitt' was bd. at Wellington NZ 04 Jan 1878 #99675. Not verified). Info is a sideways part of the family of my research. my Great Aunt Louise Marie (Rene) Mullany.

[dhouston]

Thanks Scottish dancer. Saw your Aunt and family on Findmygrave website. Only have a pic of Harry and his army records. My mum mentioned Peter when she was alive. Wonder if Harry kept in touch with our side, Hectors.

[scottishdancer]

Hi dhouston - it was a Harry Roberts (b.1940, Nelson NZ) who thought that i check out rootschat to see if an answer could be found to the question. It most likely made more questions - but obviously after Emma died, BDM records show the rest of the family had an 'Ellen' as the mother. Harry Roberts and his wife Yvonne (b. 1942 NZ) will be visiting us in NZ 11-12 Feb, and then on to Nelson to visit Yvonne's family. My husband and I will also be in that area 23-27 Feb and hopefully will be able to unravel some family ties. It is with the Mullany/Mullaney connection of the family - mother spoke often of Rene (md Winnie) and Tot who md Goodman, this latter side is the relation i am going to see. Harry's dad Anthony md Ethel Maureen Winnie, second child of Rene and Harry Orlando Winnie, s/o Orlando Hannibal Winnie and Ellen Orlando. Have been in Levin today, where the family interred the ashes of Robt Wm Mullany, s/o of Bill and g'son of Hugh and Susan Mullany - if that makes sense to you? Thanking you and kind regards - Scottishdancer